Episode 402: Nasty People

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Welcome to the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:00:37] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:38] Speaker B: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:44] Speaker C: Today we present a recommendation from our Patreon supporter, Melissa. She suggested an episode of Frontier Gentlemen entitled Nasty People. [00:00:56] Speaker A: Frontier Gentleman told the story of J.B. kendall, a British journalist who roamed the western United States in search of human interest stories. Ellis, a Brit himself, combined his own experience as a stranger in a strange land with his love of American history to create what radio spirits described as a western adventure drama featuring rich and detailed character studies, all of which were filtered through the series main character. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Kendall was played by John Dana, an experienced radio actor who frequently appeared as a guest star or supporting character in programs like the Whistler Escape, the Adventures of Philip Marlow, Gunsmoke, and more. After Frontier Gentlemen, Dana was cast in the lead role of another western radio series, have Gun Will Travel. [00:01:39] Speaker C: Like many of Ellis's scripts for the program, Nasty People reimagines historical events and people inserting JB Kendall into the action. The inspiration for the story you're about to hear will be recognizable to some and new to others. In order to avoid spoilers, though, we'll discuss the history behind the production in more detail after we listen to Nasty People from Frontier gentlemen. First broadcast November 2, 1958. [00:02:09] Speaker A: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music, and listen to the voices. [00:02:25] Speaker D: In Kansas, I found shelter for the night, which led to a number of rather awkward incidents. This is what happened. Frontier gentlemen. Here with an Englishman account of life and death in the West. As a reporter for the London Times, he writes his colorful and unusual stories. But as a man with a gun, he lives and becomes a part of the violent years in the New Territories. Now starring John Dana, this is the story of J.B. kendall, Frontier Gentleman. My rainmaking friend, Darby Bullman had offered to take me into partnership in a new venture, namely water divining, the discovery of hidden springs and wells by methods known only to Mr. Bullman. I declined with thanks and hastily set out alone for the town of Independence, which I knew to lie some 20 miles distant. I hoped to arrive before dark, but my horse had gone slightly lame and I faced the depressing prospect of camping hungry in the steadily falling rain. But a few minutes later, I was cheered at the sight of a dim glow of light in the gathering dusk and came upon a frame building surrounded by a stand of willowy trees. I tied up my horse, knocked at the door. It was immediately opened by a pleasant looking young man of about 20. Evening, sir. Good evening. You're looking might wet. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Come on in. [00:04:12] Speaker D: Thank you. Oh, there's a store? Yes, sir. Not much of a one. Only place between Independence and Osage. Mission for supplies. Ah. Where you about Independence tonight? Well, if I can. I wouldn't try if I was you. Trail's washed out a couple of miles up the way. Less than you know it. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Good. [00:04:32] Speaker D: You can get bogged down pretty bad then. Would there be any possibility of putting up here for the night? Oh, I don't know. I'll have to ask Pa. Pa. [00:04:45] Speaker A: Me. [00:04:45] Speaker D: And my PA and Ma and Sally, we live in the back. Ain't a heap of room. Oh, well, I wouldn't want to put you out. The barn would be fine if you had one. Let's see what Pa says. We take care of travelers once in a while. What is it, son? Fella here horse is lame. Wants to know if we can bed him down for the night. My name is Kendall. I'd be very grateful. Howdy, Albert. Grover. This is my son, William. You don't mind a shakedown in the storeroom? Tain't the most comfortable. No, I'm sure it'll do nicely. William, tell your mats at another place for dinner. Sure, Pa. I want to pay you, of course. Well, I ain't exactly in the hotel business, but I reckon a dollar will take care of it. Bed and food. Thank you. Oh, and is there a place for the horse? William can put him in the barn. You better make it another 50 cents if you want feed for the horse. Oh, yes, of course. Where are you from? No particular place. Just traveling salesman. Newspaper correspondent. Got a foreign sound to your talk. I came from England. You got any tobacco to sell? New bales just come in. How much pound I guess that sack of flourish and coffee pound don't mind waiting a minute, do you? I gotta get the tobacco out of the storeroom. I'll wait. You wanna come on back with me, Mr. Kendall? I'll get my saddlebag first. Sure, you do that. Well, mighty nice rain we're having, ain't it? Yes. Mister, you a stranger in these parts? Yes. You figured to stay here for the night? Yes. Don't do it. Don't why not? Listen, you think I'd have stopped off if and I wasn't plumb out of provisions. Nobody in their right mind comes around the Grovers if they can help it. Oh, why? I don't know all the why of it, but there's them say peculiar things happen, things. Don't ask me what I don't know. All I'm telling you is I've heard, that's all. Dark things. For example, that Mrs. Grover. You seen her? Not yet. Still tongued woman and a girl. They say she's got away with ghosts and the like. Ghosts go on laughs. Maybe you laugh when you wake up murdered in the night. Oh, as bad as that, huh? There's folks been seen riding this way that's never been seen again. Murdered by the Grover family. There's talk, obviously. I give you warning. As soon as I get my provisions. I'm putting distance between me and this place. And you got the sense you was born with, you'll do the same. [00:07:21] Speaker E: Good evening. You're Mr. Kendall. [00:07:25] Speaker D: Yes, that's right. [00:07:26] Speaker E: I'm Sally Grover. My brother says that you're staying with us tonight. [00:07:30] Speaker D: Yes. [00:07:31] Speaker E: My mother asks if you'll be satisfied with meat pie. Or would you rather have a plate of beef? [00:07:35] Speaker D: Oh, whichever is convenient. I don't want to put you into any trouble. [00:07:38] Speaker E: No trouble. [00:07:40] Speaker D: Meat pie, then. [00:07:41] Speaker E: Thank you. I'll tell mother. Are you being attended, sir? [00:07:45] Speaker D: Fine. I'm just fine. Yes, ma'. [00:07:47] Speaker C: Am. [00:07:48] Speaker E: Very well. Dinner will be in about a half an hour, Mr. Kendall. [00:07:52] Speaker D: Thank you. You get a good look at them eyes? Rather nice eyes, I thought, mister, your plum loco. They burn through you like a branding iron. Got a gun on you? Yes. Best keep it under your head tonight. No telling. Yes, I. I'll remember. Man, I'd have to be drunker than $700 to stay in this place tonight. I'll accept your word for it. Now, if you'll excuse me, I want to take care of my horse. I sure wish you luck, mister. I surely do. Yes, they same to you. That you, Mr. Kendall? Oh, yes. Out the back to get your horse. Better down. You want to lead him? I'll show you the way. Right. Sure is a big rain. About time, too. Been dry and the dust go around here. Yes, so I've heard. What was that? What? It sounded like somebody crying out. I guess I'm so used to it. Don't mean nothing. That's a little old owl up to the top of the barn. Guess he killed himself a mouse or something. Don't let that body none, Mr. Kendall. Come on. Better get that horse of yours out of the wet. Lesson he catches his death. Of all baby filters cigarettes. Kent filters that. Kent filters best. It makes good sense when you smoke Kent. Kent filters best of all other brands of cigarette. Kent tastes the best, can't taste the best or richer taste and all the rest can't tilt her best. It makes good sense when you smoke it. Of all these filters c correct cat. I left young William Grover to rub down the horse and feed him. By the time I returned to the house, the stranger had gone. I met Mrs. Grover, a tall dark haired woman, severe, unsmiling. And a few minutes later we were seated at the table eating an excellent meat pie. The father applied himself diligently to the task of eating. William chatted constantly. And Sally, olive skinned, tall as her mother, quite beautiful, watched me across the table, an odd smile on her lips. I set eyes on him. I said, now that fellow, he ain't from around here. He's maybe town folks then he don't know the screech of owl and I'm sure of it. Ain't that so, Mr. Kendall? It was rather an odd sound. [00:11:09] Speaker E: What sound? [00:11:10] Speaker D: Owl in the barn. [00:11:11] Speaker E: Be quiet, William. [00:11:12] Speaker D: Oh, no. We were taking my horse to the barn, Mrs. Grover. I thought I heard a cry. Your son told me about the owl in the barn. That was all. More pie? [00:11:19] Speaker E: You eat too fast, Albert. Which paper do you write, Mr. Kendall? [00:11:24] Speaker D: The London Times. [00:11:26] Speaker E: I never read the London Times, Sal. [00:11:28] Speaker D: She's real educated, Mr. Kendall. At school she does a cider reading. [00:11:32] Speaker E: You believe in spirits, Mr. Kendall? Why do you believe that the dead can return? [00:11:39] Speaker D: I've never given it much thought, Ms. Grover. Don't let her get started, Mr. Kendall. [00:11:43] Speaker E: Williams, you'll be needing more wood for the stove. [00:11:46] Speaker D: Yes, ma. [00:11:47] Speaker E: And put on your hat. Keep the chill off your head, boy. [00:11:51] Speaker D: Yes, ma. Smarty. Fine meat pie, mother. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Mmm. [00:11:58] Speaker D: Very good. [00:11:58] Speaker E: If you're finished, Mr. Kendall, I'll take your plate. [00:12:01] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:12:02] Speaker E: Sally, the coffee. [00:12:04] Speaker D: How come you're traveling this way, Kendall? You got friends and independents? No, it happens to be the closest town. I'm not quite sure what I'll do when I get there. What do you write? Mostly about things I've seen. Country people. [00:12:20] Speaker E: Have you ever written about things that you can't see? You know about such, Mr. Kendall? [00:12:26] Speaker D: Now, no lecturing tonight, girl. Leave the man in peace. Not at all, Mr. Grover. I'd like to discuss it. I don't have to listen. I got yours. [00:12:34] Speaker E: What about your coffee? [00:12:35] Speaker D: Wait a. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Minute. [00:12:39] Speaker E: I know you're not a believer. I can see it in your eyes, Mr. Kendall. [00:12:44] Speaker D: Perhaps you can convince me, Ms. Grover. [00:12:47] Speaker E: You're laughing at me. [00:12:49] Speaker D: Indeed. No, I'm most interested. [00:12:51] Speaker E: You should be, Mr. Kendall. You only write of the living. There's more. [00:12:57] Speaker D: I've written of the dead. [00:12:59] Speaker E: There's still more. [00:13:02] Speaker D: Tell me about it. I don't know for how long she talked. Strange thoughts, half formed. Ideas, philosophies. I was conscious of the depth of her eyes and remembered the words of the stranger like branding irons. Candlelight flickered on the wall and I was suddenly aware that we were alone in the room. Mrs. Grover had disappeared. There was only the sound of the girl's voice, Drum of rain, crackle of burning wood in the stove. Then she became silent. [00:13:46] Speaker E: Nothing I've said, nothing's made you understand. [00:13:51] Speaker D: The experiences, Things that have happened to you. Quite possibly true. I think I'd have to see and hear for myself, though. [00:14:00] Speaker E: People here believe in me. I've looked it for miles around. They're afraid of me, too. [00:14:07] Speaker D: Is that good? [00:14:08] Speaker E: If you knew, you'd be afraid. [00:14:11] Speaker D: Is that what you want? People to fear you? I would have thought that a girl like you, pretty, intelligent. Pity. [00:14:20] Speaker E: That's really all you see in me, isn't it? All any man sees. You'd like to make love to me. [00:14:30] Speaker D: No. No, I don't think so. [00:14:34] Speaker E: Oh. [00:14:36] Speaker D: You're a little too direct for me, Ms. Grover. [00:14:38] Speaker E: Why shouldn't I be direct? I'm different. I'm not like other women, am I? [00:14:46] Speaker D: No, you're not. Perhaps in a way, it's a pity. [00:14:50] Speaker E: If I were like the others, you'd want to make love to me. [00:14:54] Speaker D: You're not. [00:14:55] Speaker E: You may kiss me. [00:14:56] Speaker C: No. [00:14:58] Speaker E: Why? [00:14:59] Speaker D: Because you don't know how to behave like a woman. [00:15:02] Speaker E: I don't understand. [00:15:03] Speaker D: Someday you will. [00:15:05] Speaker E: Why did you come here? [00:15:07] Speaker D: My horse went lame. Raining too far to ride tonight. [00:15:11] Speaker E: Go away. [00:15:13] Speaker D: Why? [00:15:14] Speaker E: I don't know. You're not like the others. Go away. [00:15:19] Speaker D: What others? [00:15:20] Speaker E: It's last time for your best, Sally. You'll be wanting your own sleep, Mr. Kendall. Early to bed, early to rise. Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise. Good night. [00:15:56] Speaker D: Come on and go, go, go in a Plymouth, a go cart through and through you really go, go, go for a Plymouth and Plymouth will really go for you. 15 minutes behind the wheel. That's all it takes to convince you that the 59 Plymouths really got it. Got the newest of new design, new sport car handling ease, new fury performance, new get up and go. Just tell your Plymouth dealer You want to sample the go? Then you turn the key and Plymouth new golden commando V8 leaps into life. Now you just push a button and go on your way to the Most fun filled 15 minutes of your driving life. See your Plymouth dealer take your fun drive in the 59 Plymouth. Real soon you really go, go, go for a Plymouth and PL will really go for you. I lay on my cot in the cold little storeroom, shadows wavering on the wall in the uncertain light of the sputtering candle. Somewhere a shutter rattled in a gust of wind. The rain had stopped. Only a dripping from the leafless trees. The wind, uneasy sounds. And I felt under the blanket row which served as a pillow. Then I heard it. Somebody outside my door. I drew out my gun, the latch slowly, slowly raising. Do you know how close you were to entering that spirit world of yours? [00:18:07] Speaker E: Thought that you'd be asleep. [00:18:09] Speaker D: No. [00:18:10] Speaker E: I want you to go now. [00:18:11] Speaker D: You said that before. Why? [00:18:13] Speaker E: I can't tell you. [00:18:14] Speaker D: Has it anything to do with what the stranger said to me before he left? [00:18:17] Speaker E: Stranger? [00:18:17] Speaker D: The man came in to buy provisions. He told me to leave, too. Warned me. [00:18:22] Speaker E: Badass. [00:18:23] Speaker D: Yes. [00:18:24] Speaker E: What did he say? [00:18:25] Speaker D: Something about people disappearing. I gather that you and your family are not overly popular. [00:18:31] Speaker E: You're not like the others, are you? [00:18:34] Speaker D: What do you mean? [00:18:35] Speaker E: I want to be like the woman you said. I'm not. If I tell you, will you go away? Will you take me with you? [00:18:45] Speaker D: Tell me what? [00:18:48] Speaker E: I want to be loved. I'm afraid what I am. Take me with you. [00:18:53] Speaker D: Tell me what. [00:18:54] Speaker E: You're strong. You'll understand. It's not my fault. I want to go away. I've always wanted to. Others came here. They know about me because I'm pretty. You didn't come because of that, did you? He didn't either. He was a stranger, too. [00:19:22] Speaker D: Who? [00:19:26] Speaker E: Over there, behind the bales. [00:19:40] Speaker D: The stranger I had seen a few hours earlier was lying huddled against the wall, surrounded by bales of tobacco, sacks of flour and sugar. His head had been smashed in and his throat was cut. I sensed the girl at my shoulder. [00:20:00] Speaker E: They didn't have time to take him outside. They were afraid you'd hear, see you were in the barn. [00:20:06] Speaker D: Why? [00:20:07] Speaker E: You'll take me with you. [00:20:08] Speaker D: Listen to me. Why have they done this? [00:20:11] Speaker E: The money. I get yours too. [00:20:13] Speaker D: The others. You said there were others. How many? [00:20:17] Speaker E: I don't remember. Will you take me with you? Now? Before they come to do it? [00:20:22] Speaker D: You murdered them. [00:20:23] Speaker E: No. Pa and William. They do the killing. The others weren't like you, though. I didn't care if they died. I always had to die first. [00:20:34] Speaker D: When are they coming for me? Do you know, June? Do they know that you're with me? [00:20:39] Speaker E: Yes. We can go now. Before they come. [00:20:41] Speaker D: I don't think so. [00:20:42] Speaker E: They kill you. [00:20:43] Speaker D: No. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:44] Speaker E: They're very good at it. [00:20:46] Speaker D: What about your mother? [00:20:47] Speaker E: She's not my mother. She's just the woman Paul married. I don't like her. [00:20:52] Speaker C: Shh. [00:20:55] Speaker D: Get over in the corner. Not a sound, you understand? Go on. Stay out of the way. [00:21:10] Speaker E: Over here. He killed them. [00:21:32] Speaker D: They're dead. [00:21:34] Speaker E: But not really. Are you? Oh, William. He will come back. He come back. [00:21:45] Speaker D: Get up. Come on, Sally, get up. [00:21:52] Speaker E: We go away now. You take me with you. If you're with me, they won't come back. They'll be afraid. Drop down your gun, Mr. Kendall. Come over to me, Sally. Ma, he's gonna take me away. I want to go. Don't shoot him. You obey me. Sally, get out of the way. No. No. I hate you. I kill you. Is she dead? Is she? [00:22:41] Speaker D: Yes. [00:22:42] Speaker E: I'm glad. And she'll come back again. They all will. [00:22:49] Speaker D: They won't hurt you anymore. [00:22:51] Speaker E: You'll take me away now? [00:22:54] Speaker D: Yes. [00:22:55] Speaker E: I'll behave like a woman. I won't tell you. Kiss me. [00:23:04] Speaker D: I'd like to. I want to. She smiled, closed her eyes and quietly died. When I went outside, the moon was out. The air smelled fresh and clean. And very faintly, I thought I heard the voice of a girl calling to me. Frontier Gentlemen was written, produced and directed by Anthony Ellis and stars John Dana as JB Kendall. Featured in the cast were Virginia Gregg, Eddie Firestone, Parley Bear, Paula Winslow and Vic Perrin. Join us again next week for another report from the Frontier Gentleman. Bud Sewell speaking. Drive with care. Nobody has a life to spare. This is the CBS Radio Network. [00:24:34] Speaker A: That was nasty people. From Frontier Gentlemen, here on the mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast once again, I'm Eric. [00:24:43] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:24:43] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Well, congratulations, Scrimshaw. You did it. I love this episode. [00:24:54] Speaker C: I didn't do it. Melissa did. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Why didn't you pick this one? [00:24:58] Speaker C: Oh, this was. And I will tell you the episode I thought I should have brought to the podcast when I first heard it. [00:25:05] Speaker B: We like Melissa so much more than you. [00:25:07] Speaker A: I love this. But from our intro, I will tell you, I have no idea what story we're talking about that this is related to. [00:25:14] Speaker B: I know. [00:25:15] Speaker C: I knew Tim would know. I knew it. [00:25:16] Speaker A: I don't know, but I will say, and I don't know the story. It's related to. [00:25:21] Speaker C: But. [00:25:21] Speaker A: But this episode left me wanting more. Who are these people? What's going on? Why. Why were they doing this? What happened? I wanted to know more, so that's always a good sign, too. But I do have a question that we'll get to later. But overall, if you just gave this to me and then call it Frontier Gentleman, and I would say that's a really good piece of radio drama. That was really fun. It felt like gun smoke. Did. [00:25:49] Speaker C: One of the reasons I chose not to bring this. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Are you Meliss, Is that you? [00:25:54] Speaker A: Are you pretending to be Patreon supporter Melissa? No. [00:25:59] Speaker C: I thought this was one of the more conventional Frontier Gentlemen episodes, which is probably why you responded very positively to it. And I thought the other episodes represented the side of Frontier Gentlemen that I thought made it exceptional and something different. Not that I don't enjoy this episode. Sure. But that's why I chose the other, less successful installments of Frontier Gentlemen. But I feel like perhaps the other episodes wore you down and played a role in you enjoying this episode. [00:26:34] Speaker A: Like, oh, God, there's nowhere to go but up. [00:26:37] Speaker B: This has the glorious quality of. I listened to it. I thought, that's really good. I enjoyed that. Listen to it again. Like, this is five times as good the second time through. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:46] Speaker C: And why was it five times better the second time through? [00:26:49] Speaker B: Because the dialogue and the scenes, now that I knew what they're talking about. [00:26:54] Speaker A: Yep. [00:26:56] Speaker B: Carry a lot of layers and extra weight. [00:26:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:59] Speaker C: I feel the dinner scene in particular is an excellent piece of radio drama, both in terms of sound. You have the clinking of the dishes, all those standard, like, we're eating in old time radio sounds. But then also the entire time, just this howling wind behind it. So you get that frontier quality of just how fragile comfort and safety is. And then from a riding point of view, to kind of piggyback on what Tim was saying the second time through, there is so much conversation from the family that is working at cross purposes. And it establishes slyly the hierarchy within the family and what roles they play in the crimes you will eventually discover. [00:27:51] Speaker B: They are committing as they are guiding him to their ends. [00:27:55] Speaker C: Yes. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:56] Speaker C: It's a great scene. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Ah, yeah. It was really fun. Now, can I ask my question and then. No, actually, tell me what the story is first. That I don't know that this is related to Tim. [00:28:07] Speaker C: Do you want to. [00:28:08] Speaker B: You were very excited. I'll dive in. Yeah. I initially encountered the story as that story from the Little House in the Prairie, which is about the bloody benders I haven't read the story out of Little House to Pray. I just know of it. But it was this family that exactly this. You would go like, hey, I'm here for the night in Kansas. I gotta stop and rest. Like, can I have a meal here? And that's fine. And their cabin was kind of split into two with a canvas sheet. And they would sit you at the dinner table with your back to the canvas sheet. And someone would behind there, I believe with a hammer. [00:28:39] Speaker C: And it's like kunk. [00:28:41] Speaker B: And then steal your stuff. [00:28:42] Speaker C: They had a trap door. I think that they would put the bodies down in the basement and then they would go. If they needed to finish them off, they would. And take their stuff after hitting them on the head. [00:28:52] Speaker B: So it was rural Kansas. Serial killers. [00:28:56] Speaker A: And they were a family. Yeah. [00:28:58] Speaker C: Or some have suggested they were posing as a family. They were never caught or no one can really say for sure they were caught. There are people who are accused of being members of the family, but they just disappeared. [00:29:11] Speaker B: And then there was also a similar that was called like the Kelly family, which might have been the same group. [00:29:16] Speaker C: Yeah. What? But that's almost 20 years later. So that's a little suspicious. [00:29:21] Speaker A: And was this an episode of Little House on the Prairie? [00:29:24] Speaker B: It was in the book and it. [00:29:26] Speaker C: Was from some of her talks she gave. I don't know if it's part of the book. [00:29:29] Speaker B: She discussed it later. [00:29:30] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Yes. [00:29:32] Speaker B: And I think it was in one of the later discussions that her dad said got together with the vigilante group and just came back later and said they won't be doing that anymore. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Really? [00:29:42] Speaker B: Like that. You won't be hearing from them anymore. Something a little sinister for Pa Ingalls, but. [00:29:48] Speaker A: So he went out with a posse of others and took care of the benders. [00:29:51] Speaker B: That was the implication. History suggests the timeline is a little. Probably didn't happen, but yeah. [00:29:57] Speaker A: And they were in Kansas and Little House took place in Minnesota. Right. [00:30:00] Speaker B: I mean, little in the weeds, but. [00:30:02] Speaker A: I don't know where the benders portions. [00:30:04] Speaker C: Of it took place in Minnesota. [00:30:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:06] Speaker C: I think they. Throughout the book series, they move all around, don't they? I think so. [00:30:10] Speaker A: I wouldn't know. All I know is that one of them goes blind and falls down a hill in the opening or something. I never watched. [00:30:16] Speaker C: They're not connected. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Okay. They're not unrelated. Unrelated. I always thought, oh, the blind kid's falling down the hill. [00:30:22] Speaker B: My first listen through where I didn't really like connect like this is exactly that was seeing that it Was just. Oh, it's kind of like that. This. And it also compared to me, I will bring up whenever I can, Texas Chainsaw Massacre of just these little rural pockets of areas that are just. That's horrible. Suddenly horrible. [00:30:41] Speaker A: A trap door like Sweeney Todd, where, you know, like, they just go right to the basement. And then they'd make them into mince pies. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Our house is built to kill. [00:30:49] Speaker A: But why? Why were they killing? Did we ever find out? Or they just liked to kill? [00:30:53] Speaker B: I think in this, that is for money. [00:30:55] Speaker C: For money. But there's also a suggestion that they didn't make a lot of money and that there was a sadistic joy in it. Wow. But again, there isn't a lot of information, and a lot of the real information has been blurred by Laura Ingalls while they're making stuff up. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Making it famous, though. [00:31:15] Speaker C: Yeah. So, yeah, they are very, very famous. I recognized it when I read it because I recently read a story called they Bite by Anthony Boucher. It's a really good short horror story, but he mentions the benders, and then I went down a rap them up. And then I started listening to this and went, hey, wait a second. [00:31:39] Speaker A: How many did they kill? Do you. [00:31:41] Speaker B: I don't really know. [00:31:43] Speaker C: Don't really know? [00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah, because they. [00:31:45] Speaker C: I mean, they found a number of bodies in their house, but obviously, sure could have been killing. [00:31:52] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:31:53] Speaker B: But, yeah, I think I, at some point, had the same experience you're probably having now. Like those serial killers from Little House on the Prairie. [00:31:59] Speaker A: What? Right. Yeah. Sorry to derail our frontier gentleman talk. [00:32:04] Speaker B: But I'm so anxious to talk about this. [00:32:07] Speaker A: But you just gave me so much information I've never had before. And how do I make it 60 years on this planet without ever hearing that story? How did I make it this far? [00:32:16] Speaker C: It's not reading books. Oh. It's an arcane form of information gathering known as reading. [00:32:25] Speaker A: God, I got to deserve this. I deserve this so bad right now. But I know a lot of stuff. You would think that something like that. Like, I know all about the. The people that ate themselves in the. [00:32:37] Speaker C: What? [00:32:37] Speaker B: To be fair, by comparison, I'm much more likely to, like, tell me more about serial killers than you are. [00:32:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:46] Speaker C: Tins on that serial killer algorithm. [00:32:52] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you for that. Now, can I ask my question about this? And I feel so dumb. Listened to it twice. Didn't quite catch when she shot her mom. The revenge at the end when she kills her mom. Or does her mom kill her? [00:33:08] Speaker C: I believe that it is Kendall who shoots the mom? And the mom shoots Sally. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Sally. Okay, thank you. [00:33:17] Speaker C: So. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Oh, she's in the room, and then there's gunfire, and it's. Again, you can't really tell. [00:33:21] Speaker C: It's so loud. That's also what's disturbing. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:24] Speaker C: Too. [00:33:24] Speaker A: But you can't really tell who's shooting what. Like, is the mom shooting them? I think you're supposed to be like, oh, gunfire. And you don't know who's shooting until someone starts talking. I took it as she has. Sally had a gun, killed her mom. And then he's. She's like, you take me now. Like, I'm gonna be a good woman now and all that. And I was so shocked when he said. And then she smiled, closed her eyes, and died. And I went, wait, what? How did she die? So she must have been hit by gunfire, too. So Ma had a gun? [00:33:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. [00:33:58] Speaker B: And she gave the gun to tell Kendall, drop your gun. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Right. So this is lead flying everywhere and. Okay, thank you. That's all. Just wanted to clarify that. [00:34:07] Speaker C: And that is another great radio scene when Kendall wakes up and hears the latch opening on the door. And he narrates it in that whisker so quietly as he's slowly. And the sound of his voice telegraphs an image of how slow he is sliding that gun out from his makeshift pillow. And then when that latch opens and there's just that feat of silence, he's like, I almost sent you to that spirit world you love so much. And suddenly the tension just drains from the scene so that when it explodes again in that violent gunfire, it's kind of this delayed payoff of the suspense of the earlier scene with this break in between, which I. I really like. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah. If it wasn't for the guy coming in to buy stuff from them because he had to, and then telling him, hey, get out of here. That scene wasn't in there. The scene of her just going, hey, kiss me and make love to me. [00:35:08] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:35:09] Speaker A: Like, would have had a whole different context, you know? [00:35:15] Speaker B: Like, I don't know that he would have reacted differently. [00:35:17] Speaker A: But the setup. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Yes, but the context of what she's trying to express is that's the other. [00:35:24] Speaker C: Reason I didn't start out with this episode. Cause there's. This is a really dark and, I think, psychologically complex story of this woman who has been trafficked. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:38] Speaker C: By her family. That's what that scene suggests with Kendall. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:35:43] Speaker C: Because when she says. [00:35:44] Speaker A: But what I'm saying is, I just want to make clear What I'm saying, if it wasn't for the guy telling us that information in this story, the guy coming in, we wouldn't know that when it's happening. And so we'd be like, wow, that's weird. She's just hitting on him. Right. [00:35:56] Speaker C: Well, I think we're unsure in that moment exactly how willing she is. Right. How much of a participant she is. And I think the fact that as soon as she realizes that he's not there to have sex with her or take advantage of her in some way, she. [00:36:18] Speaker B: It's an opportunity to get out, that. [00:36:20] Speaker C: I can escape all this. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. All I'm saying. [00:36:23] Speaker C: But I don't think Kendall realizes that. And that's one of the things I think is brilliant about it, because he is. [00:36:29] Speaker A: He is warned before that about the family. Before that happens. He's warned. What I'm saying, as a listener and as him, you get the warning from the guy that puts it in a. [00:36:39] Speaker B: Different context, gets a warning that he takes the grain of salt of. Like, still, this was haunted and weird. [00:36:44] Speaker A: Like, still, as a listener. [00:36:45] Speaker C: Also, he's a journalist, so I think there's also a part of him that goes, I'm skeptical that supernatural or dark things are happening here, but I think there might be a story here. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Correct. All I'm saying is without that information from that guy coming in, you go, oh, look at that. Instead we go, oh, no. When she hits you. What I'm saying, without that guy. [00:37:07] Speaker C: Well, plus all of the darker frontier spiritualism. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Well, that was there. [00:37:12] Speaker B: Yeah. That he starts out with my dowsing friend. My. [00:37:16] Speaker C: Oh, that is from a previous episode. They would often bleed loosely from episode. [00:37:21] Speaker A: To episode, but none of that spiritualism, none of it came. We didn't know anything was wrong in the story until the guy comes in to buy stuff. [00:37:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker A: We know nothing except he's staying. So then everything that's said and done becomes, ooh, what does that mean? Ooh, that's suspect. Oh, that's weird. Without that information, that scene becomes weird and awkward. But with that information, it became horrifying. That's what I'm getting at, that information. [00:37:50] Speaker B: The warning comes immediately after this very fair, friendly exchange with the dad of life. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:57] Speaker B: You know, I'll give you a place to stay, feed your free, act, your animals. It's a reasonable price. Dollar extra 50 cents for the horse feed. Yeah. [00:38:05] Speaker A: It all seemed really normal. Yeah. [00:38:07] Speaker C: Here's where I think Ellis's script is really subtle because we just were speaking of. Why did Kendall dismiss that warning so Quickly. One of the reasons is he mentions pretty early on that he thought Sally was quite attractive. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:24] Speaker C: And when the stranger says, you know, her eyes are burning, like, I can't remember. Like, yeah, iron. [00:38:30] Speaker B: Like, waffle iron. [00:38:31] Speaker C: Waffle irons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly her eyes. [00:38:36] Speaker A: So beautiful. Waffles. [00:38:43] Speaker C: Like those little donut making machines. But I think part of that tells the audience that he's like, I might like to spend a little more time with this beautiful young woman. And so later, when she's talking about spiritualism, he sees the same uncomfortable burning in her eyes that the stranger identified. And then in that conversation with her, it reads, certainly, I think, to contemporary ears, but I think at the time, a little harsh. You don't know what it means to be a woman. It's a pretty harsh act. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:27] Speaker C: Patronizing. And I think in the end, he recognizes that fact about his behavior when all the pieces are in place and he realizes that this wasn't her just coming on to him. [00:39:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:42] Speaker C: He judged her without all the facts. And it's really a lot of emotion. It's small, but it's there in Kendall's voice. But, like, yes, I'd like that very much to take you away. Because he knows she's gonna die. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:59] Speaker C: And the one line that jumped out at me that just screamed sexual violence survivor is she says this weird line, and it stood out the first time, and I didn't really put it in context where she says, when these men came, that she had to die first. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:18] Speaker C: Which has this strong sense of, I don't want association, too, of, like, I just left my body for all this. And so it's dark that way. [00:40:31] Speaker A: Yep. It is a dark, dark episode. [00:40:35] Speaker B: And to acknowledge the button at the end of that. And then he feels, if not literally haunted by her, a sense of haunted by her. [00:40:44] Speaker C: And you realize that she is glomming on to the spiritualism as a form of hope or a form of, like, just an attempt to process everything she's going through. But yet on another, more literal narrative level, they mention that, oh, she tours around towns giving these lectures. So they're also just literally using her as a lure, this beautiful woman, to go around and say, I'm just living over here at this shack. We'll talk more about spiritualism. Come and see me. [00:41:14] Speaker B: And haunted as guilt and haunted as walking a line of, I'm gonna speak about these supernatural things as a way to entice you and also go away. [00:41:24] Speaker A: Ugh. [00:41:25] Speaker C: Yeah. So that was part of the reason I Was like, this is a dark episode to bring for the first Frontier Gentleman. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:31] Speaker B: Melissa, what's wrong with you? [00:41:33] Speaker C: I thought it was great that someone else suggested it. [00:41:38] Speaker A: I would. [00:41:38] Speaker C: I think it's incredibly well done and delicately handled. [00:41:43] Speaker A: I think this is incredibly well done and delicately handled. That was a great way to put it. I'm really glad this isn't my first Frontier Gentleman because I would have expected this from all of them and been like, wait, this is just a guy raising rabbits. What's happening? [00:42:02] Speaker C: Not the rabbits one. Not an episode of Frontier General. [00:42:05] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:42:06] Speaker A: The one where he Bob Bunnies. [00:42:07] Speaker C: Yeah. You're confusing a bit of M again. [00:42:12] Speaker A: Tell me about the rabbits. [00:42:13] Speaker C: Frontier Gentlemen. [00:42:15] Speaker A: The one where they just made pie for a half an hour. Wasn't that one of them? [00:42:20] Speaker C: That's this one. This one wins the award for the most exuberant utterances of the word meat pie. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:28] Speaker C: Single radio drama again. I counted four times. [00:42:31] Speaker A: Sweeney Todd. [00:42:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:33] Speaker A: There's this, right? [00:42:34] Speaker C: Yeah. If it. If this episode weren't so good, that would have taken me out of it. I would have went, stop saying meat pie. [00:42:40] Speaker B: I like the meat pie content. [00:42:44] Speaker A: When we're done, I'm going to tell you something about meat pie, because I don't want to bore. We were talking before. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Do we want to not have a boring, long tangent? [00:42:55] Speaker A: Every culture has a version of meat pie pierogies or whatever. Like every and every one. And it's just a fascinating thing that I'm infatuated with. And I've had almost every culture's version. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Of pasties is the best. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Pasties are the best. [00:43:09] Speaker D: Yay. [00:43:10] Speaker C: Before we started recording, we were talking about morals, getting an HR department and would be taking this meat pie anecdote to hr. [00:43:23] Speaker A: Yes. However, we did vote Tim as the HR director. So that Ain't nothing's gonna happen. [00:43:30] Speaker B: I agree with both of you. [00:43:31] Speaker A: See? Yeah. [00:43:34] Speaker C: I. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Unless you got. Do you have more things to say or do you want to vote or. I'm just so excited to say these words. [00:43:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker A: You ready? You ready? [00:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:44] Speaker A: That episode of Frontier Gentlemen was a classic. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Congratulations, Joshua. You've won life. [00:43:53] Speaker C: Oh, Melissa stole my victory. [00:44:00] Speaker A: But I loved it. [00:44:01] Speaker C: So deserves the credit. [00:44:03] Speaker A: It really is incredibly well performed, directed, produced, paced. Every. And it. Yes, it's dark content and. But it's also suspenseful and terrifying. It's horror. It's. It's human condition. It is good God almighty. That was every emotion on the planet except comedy. [00:44:26] Speaker C: I thought it was pretty funny. [00:44:31] Speaker B: I liked it, too. [00:44:32] Speaker C: I chuckled a little when there was that cry, strangled cry of the man. And he's like, ow. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Owl. That's the going back second time of like the owl conversation. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Ow. [00:44:44] Speaker B: What are you talking. Oh, the sound in the barn. Right. [00:44:49] Speaker C: Owl. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Yes. Classic. Everything Eric said, this is. It is all the technical skill that goes into every episode of Frontier Gentlemen, I will grant you that. And the meticulous, technical, delicate skill with which the script coheses, which is my passing Sideswipe at other episodes of Frontier and Gentlemen. Right. [00:45:14] Speaker C: Why, guys? Why go back? I learned it from watching you. You're absolutely right. Yeah, I agree with Eric. [00:45:25] Speaker B: I can't. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Wow, this is a big day. [00:45:28] Speaker C: But one thing in particular that I don't think we mentioned that I thought was fantastic about this big picture is how it really deftly and uniquely blends seemingly incongruous genres. I mean, this is a horror piece. It's a kind of slow burn, suspense type of story. It's obviously a western right up front. And then mixed in with that, I was really impressed, particularly from this era. But then I think that's my naivete more than anything else. How it handles sexual violence and how it treats this character who suffered from it. And also how Kendall reacts to it as a character. Yes. Again, I thought it was really, really well done. Listening to more Gunsmokes. We were recently listening to a bunch of gunsmokes to. They were pretty dark to choose one to perform. And I realized that westerns, I think, as a genre in radio is a lot like sci fi of this era where. Because it is not happening and in the current moment, I think they got to speak to things. [00:46:43] Speaker B: Contemporary topics that are not welcome in contemporary stories. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Yes, Interesting point. [00:46:49] Speaker C: Something get away with in an episode of Dragnet. [00:46:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, how about that? [00:46:53] Speaker C: This is. You're smarter women in the past and like. No, not just the past. [00:46:58] Speaker A: You're smart, Joshua. [00:46:59] Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you. I also make up for all the horrible things you've said about Frontier Gentlemen in the past. [00:47:04] Speaker A: You know what else I love about this episode, though? In the five we've listened to or whatever it's been, I've always. Okay, so this is. He's like this weenie guy. Like, he's this wimpy weenie guy that's, you know, English and blah, blah, blah. This episode, he is. He is. Kills them. Nice. He's not a wimp. He's. He's a. I think you've learned the. [00:47:26] Speaker D: Wrong lesson from this episode. [00:47:29] Speaker A: He's a badass. I love it. [00:47:31] Speaker C: He was defending himself and he had other innocent. [00:47:36] Speaker A: If I was in that situation, I would have just screamed, peed my pants. I would have not have been that heroic. And he was. And I wouldn't have imagined hero in every episode. No, no. [00:47:48] Speaker C: Only murders people. [00:47:50] Speaker A: Not in the one where he bought bunnies for half an hour. [00:47:52] Speaker B: I want to tack on that. I also appreciate it being a sort of personal joy way. The truestical facts that get worked into the script and were worked in in a way that I did not see coming. And when it did reveal itself, I went, that's perfect. That's great. [00:48:05] Speaker A: All right, Tim. [00:48:06] Speaker C: Classic all around. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Classic Tim. Tell him stuff. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Please go visit ghoulishdelights.com that is the home of this podcast. But of course you can find this podcast wherever you find your other podcasts. We're just hanging out with podcasts under a rock. Just hanging out by the schoolyard with Julio. Yes, the Julio podcast is excellent. [email protected] you will also be able to leave comments on episodes. You can vote in polls. You can also find a link to our store if you want to buy some merchandise, some themed merchandise. Buy some and you'll find a link to our Patreon page. [00:48:45] Speaker C: Yes, go to patreon.com themorals and become a member of the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society. You can, if you become a member, request an episode as Melissa did. You too can change our Steal this podcast about a radio show. You too can bring forth Eric's Lust for Blood. In addition to making requests for the podcast, we have all kinds of bonus episodes, lots and lots of them. At this point. We also have Zoom Happy Hours. We have book clubs. None of those are mandatory, but they're there and you should become a member and join us and the Mysterious Old. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Radio Listening Society Theater Company, which is us three. And Shannon Custer performs on stage, live audio dramas, classic old time radio shows, recreations of those, and a lot of her own original work. Come see us perform radio drama by going to ghoulishdelights.com and see where we're performing, what we're performing, and how to get tickets. This episode in January 2026. I will let you know we're gonna have a really full year of shows this 2026, so there'll be a lot of opportunities to come see us. And if you can't, for whatever reason, as a Patreon, we record the audio of those shows and we post those for that audio of our performances for our Patreons. What is coming up next up next is my choice. [00:50:22] Speaker B: I am bringing another episode of Vanishing Point entitled the Cave. Until then. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Me and Julio down by the screen. Now it's in your head, right?