Episode 412: The Curse of the Neanderthal

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Welcome to the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:00:36] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:38] Speaker B: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:43] Speaker C: Today we return to that guiltiest of old time radio pleasures, Dark Fantasy, a series that never fails to befuddle, delight and annoy in unequal measure. [00:00:55] Speaker A: The program ran from November 14, 1941 through June 19, 1942. It was an in house production of WKY in Oklahoma City, but broadcast nationally by NBC. Most of the actors heard on the show were from the Oklahoma City area, including veteran radio actor Ben Morris and local stage actor Eleanor Naylor Coughran. WKY's traffic manager Darrell McAllister was brought in to handle sound effects. [00:01:21] Speaker B: According to an article in the Capitol times published on April 19, 1942, writer director Scott Bishop conceived the series while sitting in a Chinese tea room sipping a spiced tea of his own invention. Bishop elaborated on the appeal of his show and the allure of radio horror in Although listeners enjoy a good whodunnit yarn where all the facts have sound reasons for existing, I think there's more fascination in the dark fantasy type of tale where the horror comes from things unusual or even supernatural. In this case, it's not the terror itself that causes the listener's hair to rise. It's the unseen, unaccountable cause of the terror. [00:01:56] Speaker C: It's not just the terror that's unaccountable. Bishop's tales often reject facts and logic altogether in favor of dreamlike free association, resulting in stories that proceed according to Scott Bishop's subconscious impulses or perhaps whatever secret ingredient he added to his spice tea. [00:02:17] Speaker A: So with that in mind, we invite you to get comfortable. Dim the lights, drift into that liminal state between wakefulness and sleep, and listen to the Curse of the Neanderthal from Dark Fantasy. First broadcast January 9, 1942. [00:02:33] Speaker B: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music and listen to the voices. [00:03:02] Speaker D: Dark fantasy. I am the neanderthal man. [00:03:40] Speaker E: Operator, are you there? Operator? [00:03:43] Speaker D: She's probably gone out for a spot of tea or a date with one of the music hall boys. [00:03:47] Speaker E: You people be quiet. [00:03:49] Speaker D: Isn't she pretty when she's excited? Hayes. Oh, quiet. Quiet. [00:03:51] Speaker E: Operator. Operator. [00:03:54] Speaker D: Why would Anyone be so anxious to call one's sister? Anyway, I can't for the life of me imagine. [00:04:00] Speaker E: Will you two please go take a walk or something? Operator, are you there? [00:04:04] Speaker D: You could write your sister a letter, you know, instead of trying to call her long distance. [00:04:08] Speaker E: I'm probably getting in touch with her sooner. Are you there, operator? Oh, I had her on the line just a moment ago. [00:04:15] Speaker D: Now, if it were her young man she were calling, I'd know why she's so very anxious. I say, old man, it so happens I am the lady's young man. Awful. [00:04:23] Speaker E: Well, I'll have nothing to do with either of you if you don't stop teasing me. [00:04:26] Speaker D: My dear girl, do you really want to get that call through to your sister? [00:04:29] Speaker E: Oh, no. I'm just standing here jiggling this receiver for the exercise. Ajax says it's good for the arm muscles. Operator, will you please answer? [00:04:38] Speaker D: Here, Olga, let me have a try. [00:04:39] Speaker E: Reggie, go away. Don't bother me. [00:04:41] Speaker D: Permit me, me lady to assist you. [00:04:42] Speaker E: No, Reggie, One side now, one side, Reggie. This call's important. [00:04:45] Speaker D: Just why I'm so anxious to help you. Now, look here, operator, we've been trying to. What's that? Oh, operator. Yes, into a telephone transmitter. But I say, now, look here, my girl. [00:05:03] Speaker E: If you want, give me that receiver. But, Mandy, are you there, Operator? Yes, I wish to place a call. We were disconnected. This is Amanda Loveland. Yes, at Lookout Point. That's right. The Artist Colony. I wish to speak to Ms. Grace Loveland. Number 12 Garrett Street, London. Yes, that's right. How soon can you get through to London, please? Very well. Will you call me back? Thank you. [00:05:34] Speaker D: There, you see? The damsels always come running when a gentleman calls. [00:05:38] Speaker E: Oh, Reggie, save your humor for some other time, will you? [00:05:41] Speaker D: I say something wrong. Will do. [00:05:45] Speaker E: I don't know. [00:05:46] Speaker D: Why do you use that tone, darling? Well, look here, Amanda. Nothing wrong with your sister, is there? [00:05:51] Speaker E: No, it's. [00:05:52] Speaker D: It's not there, but something's wrong. Tell by the way you've been acting. Yes, you were certainly never in such a hurry to call Grace before. [00:05:58] Speaker E: I. I'm anxious to know where she was today. [00:06:01] Speaker D: Where she was? [00:06:02] Speaker E: Yes, she was supposed to be attending a tea party in London, but. Well, I've reason to think she wasn't there. [00:06:09] Speaker D: So suppose she wasn't. Why should that upset you? [00:06:13] Speaker E: Perhaps if I tell you, you'll understand. [00:06:16] Speaker D: Yes, something's wrong. I certainly want to know about it. Yes, Amanda, by all means, tell us what's troubling you. [00:06:21] Speaker E: Yes, I must tell somebody. [00:06:24] Speaker D: Reggie. [00:06:25] Speaker E: Will you please close the door? [00:06:26] Speaker D: Well, certainly, darling. Now, Amanda, sit here. [00:06:31] Speaker E: No, no, I'd rather not. Sit down. [00:06:34] Speaker D: Say, you are upset. [00:06:36] Speaker E: Yes. I had the strangest experience this afternoon. [00:06:40] Speaker D: You did? Where? [00:06:42] Speaker E: In Nano Canyon. [00:06:43] Speaker D: So that's where you were today. No wonder we couldn't find you. Reg and I wanted you to go up to the falls with us. [00:06:49] Speaker E: I went into the canyon to paint. [00:06:51] Speaker D: We gathered you were off somewhere working. I noticed your equipment wasn't around any place. [00:06:55] Speaker E: You've been there, haven't you? In the canyon? [00:06:56] Speaker D: Oh, not I. I've been planning to go there, though I've been a couple of times. Why didn't you tell me you were going into Nano? I. [00:07:03] Speaker E: There's only one way into the canyon from this end, you know. [00:07:05] Speaker D: Yes, near Flagstone Point. It's 12 miles to the other end. [00:07:10] Speaker E: Well, I arrived at Flagstone Point about noon, so I climbed down the path and picked out a shady spot in the canyon to eat the lunch I'd taken along. [00:07:19] Speaker D: Yes. [00:07:20] Speaker E: After that I looked around a while and then picked out a scene near the entrance to the canyon. [00:07:25] Speaker D: To paint, of course. To paint haze. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, dear. [00:07:29] Speaker E: It was a perfect scene. The light was just right, so I spent most of the afternoon there until the light began to fade. [00:07:35] Speaker D: Did you finish the sketching? [00:07:36] Speaker E: Yes. Filled in a great deal of the color. It was really going to be quite good. [00:07:41] Speaker D: What do you mean going to be? [00:07:44] Speaker E: I'll never finish it. [00:07:45] Speaker D: Why, dear? [00:07:47] Speaker E: Because I never want to go back there again. [00:07:50] Speaker D: What on earth happened? [00:07:51] Speaker E: Oh, why doesn't that operate at. Get that call through to London. [00:07:55] Speaker D: Amanda, tell us what happened in the canyon. Yes, for heaven's sake, the suspense. [00:07:59] Speaker E: What happened was like a nightmare, darling. Yes, like a nightmare. Just as I was getting ready to pack up my things, I heard a noise behind me. A low rumbling noise. And when I looked around, I saw that a side of the canyon was caving in. [00:08:21] Speaker D: My word, landslide. [00:08:22] Speaker E: Yes, the whole side of the canyon was falling away, making a terrific noise about. It left a sheer vertical cliff there. It had been sloping before. Yes, right where the only path down into the canyon had been. [00:08:36] Speaker D: You mean you were trapped there in a canyon? [00:08:38] Speaker E: I certainly was, with night coming on. And you know the stories they tell around here about Nano Canyon. [00:08:43] Speaker D: Yes, they say the place is simply oozing with ghosts at night. [00:08:48] Speaker E: No, really, Reggie. The place does have a reputation. [00:08:51] Speaker D: Oh, I've heard the stories, but you don't want to believe everything you hear, you know. Well, how on earth did you get out of the canyon? [00:08:57] Speaker E: Amanda, I had a beastly time of it. [00:08:58] Speaker D: Did you get out before dark? [00:09:00] Speaker E: I certainly did not. As soon as I saw that the path was cut off from the land side, I. I started walking along the side of the canyon, trying to find a way out. [00:09:08] Speaker D: But there are no others. [00:09:09] Speaker E: Didn't I find that out? I walked and walked, and all the time it was growing darker and darker. And finally the sun went down and a ghostly gloom settled over the canyon. I began to walk faster, but I couldn't find any place that looked like a way up. I've walked for miles. No way out of here, dear. It's so dark, all I can do is keep walking. What's that? Some. Some night birds. Yes, that's all. Such a weird sound. I've never heard anything like it. Thank heaven it's gone. That's strange. That bird was the only noise I've heard in this place. No other night noises at all. [00:10:25] Speaker D: Good heavens. [00:10:27] Speaker E: What's that up there? Light shining on a human figure. Am I losing my mind? It's Grace. There in the light. Oh, no. Oh, no. I can't see her. Grace. Grace. That is Grace standing there in that strange glow of light. Pointing, gesturing, as though trying to show me a path out of here. Yes. Yes. She is directing me out of the canyon. The blunt. I can see the way. Art. Grace. Grace, is that yours? Is that your Grace? [00:11:11] Speaker D: Oh, no. Don't go, [00:11:14] Speaker E: David. The light's fading away. She's gone. There's still that strange light shining on the way out of this awful place. [00:11:47] Speaker D: There actually was a path leading up out of that canyon. [00:11:49] Speaker E: How else do you suppose I got back here? [00:11:51] Speaker D: Amazing. [00:11:52] Speaker E: That strange light continued to glow until I found the path and managed to. When I looked back, it was pitch dark in the canyon. [00:12:00] Speaker D: Amanda, are you certain you didn't dream all of that? [00:12:03] Speaker E: Oh, for heaven's sakes, Reggie. [00:12:05] Speaker D: No, I don't think it was a dream. What makes you say that? [00:12:09] Speaker E: Oh, well, it must be London. Are you there? Yes. Yes, this is Amanda Loveland. Yes, Ready for my call to London. Thank you. Are you there, Grace? Darling, this is Amanda. Oh, fine. Thank you, darling. Have you been in London all day? Oh. Oh, no, nothing's wrong. Don't worry, dear. Everything's all right. Yes, I may be coming to London soon. All right, darling. Take care of yourself. Good night, dear. Jake has been in London all day. Surely there in the canyon, in that strange light, I saw her as plainly as I see you now. But the voice wasn't hers. [00:13:11] Speaker D: How are we going to account for what happened. There is only one way to account for it. [00:13:17] Speaker E: You mean. Hey, you think you know what happened to me? [00:13:22] Speaker D: I think so. You were guided out of that canyon by. By a swarf. [00:13:31] Speaker E: A swarf? [00:13:32] Speaker D: A swarf. It's a name commonly applied to a supernatural spirit with the power of impersonating some earthly being. Impersonating, you say? Yes. There's no explanation. Except that Swartz have often been seen in these parts. Alice, this particular spirit took the earthly shape of your sister and helped you find a way out of your temporary prison. No, I don't believe such things happen. [00:14:00] Speaker E: Haley, you'd certainly believe it if you'd experience it like I did. [00:14:03] Speaker D: Yes, Reggie, you're wrong. Those things do happen. Swarfs do appear in this vicinity. But that's. That's. That's weird. [00:14:11] Speaker E: Well, it certainly is. See one sister appear in a place in the darkness and speak in a voice. And then to learn she was actually hundreds of miles away at the time. [00:14:21] Speaker D: Amanda, is this the landscape you were doing? [00:14:25] Speaker E: Oh, yes. [00:14:26] Speaker D: Mind if I have removed the color and have a look? [00:14:28] Speaker E: I know. Go right ahead. Just as I left off, I was passing up here. [00:14:32] Speaker D: Hay, you better let me give you a hand. If you spoil one of Amanda's paint. Shoot. I say. Look, Amanda, have you seen this since you left the canyon? [00:14:43] Speaker E: No, no, I told you I haven't. [00:14:48] Speaker D: Look at it. There in the right hand corner. A strange, monstrous looking creature lurking in the shadows. Amanda, were you conscious of the fact you were painting that fantastic creature into the picture? [00:15:01] Speaker E: No. No, I wasn't. I hadn't even noticed it. [00:15:05] Speaker D: That's very strange. Yes, isn't it? If your perspective is correct, Amanda, that creature is about 8ft tall. A huge, fiendish thing. [00:15:18] Speaker E: But how did it ever become a part of my painting? [00:15:21] Speaker D: Yes, how? Well, we'll find out. What do you mean, Hayes? We'll go down into the canyon and have a look. [00:15:28] Speaker E: No, no, not me. [00:15:30] Speaker D: Oh, I. I mean tomorrow, of course, when it's day. How much farther, Amanda? [00:15:57] Speaker E: We're practically there. [00:15:58] Speaker D: What amazes me is that you couldn't find the way the swarf pointed out to you last night, Amanda. [00:16:04] Speaker E: I'm sorry, Hayes. It doesn't seem to be there today. [00:16:07] Speaker D: Oh, well, what's the difference? Didn't take us long to come in from the other end of the canyon on horseback. Yes. The only thing that annoys me is that we couldn't ride the animals all the way. Who held a walking motor? Hurt you? Besides, we've only been A foot. A few hundred yards. [00:16:19] Speaker E: Oh. Oh, here we are. This is the spot I was painting. I set up my canvas over there on that little mound. [00:16:27] Speaker D: Hmm. Then according to the sketch you made, that fearful creature was lurking about here. [00:16:35] Speaker E: Reggie, look here. [00:16:39] Speaker D: Bones. Human bones. Down there in that crevice. Oh, I say those can't be human bones. Oh, no. [00:16:44] Speaker E: They're much too large. [00:16:45] Speaker D: I should say so. You're wrong, both of you. They are human bones. I've studied anatomy enough to recognize the clavicle, humerus and ulna of the human arm. And the femur and fibula of the leg. There. Jove Hayes is right. This was some gigantic prehistoric creature. Heaven knows how many years old. [00:17:07] Speaker E: Could. Could this skeleton have any connection with the ghostly figure in my painting? [00:17:13] Speaker D: It couldn't. Yes. It's just possible that the spirit of this prehistoric man is himself a swarf and can take on a human shape. The spirit, I mean. Precisely. He saw Amanda sitting there on that mound painting. He assumed a shape she couldn't make out, but one which her professional brush caught in the sketching. [00:17:39] Speaker E: Then. Then he could have assumed the form of my sister. [00:17:42] Speaker D: If our theory is correct, yes. That's fantastic. [00:17:47] Speaker E: But how can we learn anything about this thing that was buried here in his crevice? [00:17:53] Speaker D: There's one way I know of. We can consult Dr. Gustav. By Jove, you're right. Dr. Gustav staying at the colony. [00:18:00] Speaker E: Well, then let's go get him and bring him here. [00:18:02] Speaker D: Yes, let's. Who knows? We may have discovered something entirely unknown to our civilization. Well, Dr. Gustav? Yes, your suspicions were correct, my friends. These are human bones. Can you identify them, Doctor? I most certainly can. This was a Neanderthal man. [00:18:46] Speaker E: Neanderthal or the Neanderthal man existed thousands of years ago. [00:18:50] Speaker D: True, Ms. Loveland, from 20 to 40,000 years ago. There's no mistake about it. Not the slightest. These are fossilized remains of an ancient man. Here, look. Look at these peculiarly shaped molar teeth. That's one side. Every bone of his body shows some distinct markings. Many of them are of simian nature. Ape like, you mean? Exactly. Eyebrow ridges were like those of the gorilla. Ruthless skull was low like theirs. And yet his brain most probably surpassed the modern Europeans in size and ability. How long ago did you say he existed? The native? His culture may be put down tentatively as extending from 40,000 to 20,000 BC. The Neanderthal man appears to have been the sole occupant of Europe during the middle of the Pleistocene period, throughout the time in which the. The Musterian Culture prevailed. He buried his dead with great signs of respect. He worked flint implements with great skill, was a fine hunter, lived in caves and rock shelters. But, Doctor, after all this time, his remains should be quite deep in the earth. I know. And he undoubtedly has been buried deeply through the centuries. But some, a subterranean disturbance must have caused his crevice and exposed his burial place. [00:20:20] Speaker E: Look. Did you men see this? [00:20:22] Speaker D: What? There. A stone tablet. [00:20:26] Speaker E: There's some sort of strange pictures on it. [00:20:30] Speaker D: Let me see. Let me see. Please. Just so, just so. What is it? Dr. Gustav, this is the final proof. This is the picture, your writing of the Neanderthal man. [00:20:43] Speaker E: Can you decipher it? [00:20:44] Speaker D: I can indeed. And now, let's see. This. This portion here, my left. That's. No, that's indiscernible. But the rest of it reads, who moves my bones will surely die as I have died a curse. Well, then, let's take his advice and leave him alone. Not on your life, sir. Why? Why, this is one of the most amazing finds of the century. These bones must be removed to the museum and reconstructed. [00:21:22] Speaker E: Put the warning on the stone tablet. [00:21:24] Speaker D: Oh, nonsense, Ms. Lovelet, nonsense. Do you think a curse can continue to exist through 40,000 years, 400 centuries? No. Well, Mandy, this is the museum. Ever been here before? [00:21:56] Speaker E: Once, when I was a child. Uncle Reginald brought me. [00:22:00] Speaker D: How long has it been since the Neanderthal man was brought here? [00:22:02] Speaker E: Oh, at least six weeks. [00:22:04] Speaker D: Well, Dr. Gustav said in his letter that the man had been completely reconstructed. The skeleton had been placed in a standing position in a special room. [00:22:11] Speaker E: There's the room, see? [00:22:12] Speaker D: Yes, the sign over the door. The Neanderthal man. [00:22:17] Speaker E: Let's go look before we visit the doctor, shall we? [00:22:19] Speaker D: Right. Here we are. The door was open. This room is empty. [00:22:33] Speaker E: Yes, but there's a stone base over there. Those things might have been built up on it. [00:22:39] Speaker D: That's strange. I beg your pardon. Yes, what is it? I am called Vaniff. Could you direct me to Dr. Gustav? Steady. Why, yes. It's at the end of the hall. See? His name is in black letters on that frosted door pane. Oh, yes. I thank you so very much. Pardon me for having disturbed you. [00:23:16] Speaker E: Reggie. Amanda. That man. [00:23:18] Speaker D: Jove. What a giant. At least 8ft tall. [00:23:21] Speaker E: That's Bushy eyebrows and lorry. Looks like an ape. [00:23:23] Speaker D: And what was wrong with his neck? He held his head crooked over to one side, one shoulder humped up in a terribly grotesque position. [00:23:31] Speaker E: Did you think that. I thought he went into the doctor's office. No, I didn't Reggie, If I didn't know better, I'd think that man was nothing. [00:23:43] Speaker D: I know what you're thinking. [00:23:44] Speaker E: That warning magic. Who moves my bones will die as I have died. Look. What? [00:23:51] Speaker D: There in the room on the stone base. The skeleton of the prehistoric man. [00:23:54] Speaker E: But he wasn't there just a few months ago. [00:23:56] Speaker D: Good Lord. Come on into the doctor's office. [00:24:00] Speaker E: Dr. Gustav. [00:24:01] Speaker D: Dr. Gustav. Dr. Gustav. Good. [00:24:09] Speaker E: Oh, wretch. What's happened to him? [00:24:15] Speaker D: He's dead. Broken neck. [00:24:19] Speaker E: He was sitting at his bed writing [00:24:23] Speaker D: writing report on the Neanderthal man. Look, he just completed one sentence. Is my finding that the death of the Neanderthal man discovered in Mano Canyon was caused by a broken neck. The Curse of the Neanderthal. Another original tale of dark fantasy written by Scott Bishop. Ben Morris was heard as Reggie. Eleanor Naylor Corin was Amanda, Irillo Schofield was Hayes. Fred Wayne played Dr. Gosart. And Daryl McAllister was banished. Next Friday night at the same time, we'll bring you another story of the fantastic and the unusual created by Scott Bishop. Listen for Debt from the Past. A strange weird adventure laid in modern America with the flavor of the 19th century. The story of a businessman who was almost too honest and who found a method of paying a long standing debt of honor. Although 30 years in his grave. Doc Fantasy originates in the studios of WKY Oklahoma City. Tom Paxton speaking. This is the national broadcasting Company that [00:26:32] Speaker A: was Curse of the Neanderthal from Dark Fantasy here on the mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast once again. I'm Eric. [00:26:40] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:26:41] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:26:42] Speaker A: Joshua brought that. That's your pick. You brought that? That was. That was you? [00:26:48] Speaker C: That was me, Yeah. I did it. [00:26:53] Speaker B: I'm glad that we have agreed to, for the purpose of this conversation, say it. As Neanderthal as Scott Bishop did I. Neanderthal is. [00:27:01] Speaker C: Actually did some research. [00:27:02] Speaker B: Of course you did. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Wait, is it not correct? Neanderthal? [00:27:05] Speaker C: No, I think both are still are technically correct. But Neanderthal has become the more acceptable, really highbrow version according to what I read. So if we want to just go back and forth between Neanderthal, Neanderthal, Caveman, whatever we want to say. [00:27:27] Speaker B: I'm feeling myself becoming a unuseful species who's going to just sort of drift into obscurity with my. [00:27:38] Speaker C: You primitive. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Can we call it Captain Caveman? [00:27:42] Speaker C: Yes, Captain Caveman. [00:27:46] Speaker A: That was pretty good. [00:27:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I toned it down for the [00:27:49] Speaker B: mic, [00:27:54] Speaker C: So I chose this one. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah, here we go. [00:27:56] Speaker C: For a reason. Okay, not a very good one. Pretty flimsy reason. First of all, it is a guilty pleasure. As I said, I do enjoy dark fantasy in a way that might have started with irony, but now it's something sicker. And, you know, this one has everything I do enjoy about dark fantasy. All the hallmarks of Scott Bishop's work. Successful and obviously not so successful. Hallmarks. The eerie atmosphere. It has the stream of consciousness kind of dialogue. It has the weird tone, genre shift halfway through, the characters who are either, like, dumb high or in a. Like a walking waking dream. It's just fun. But the reason I chose it is because if I ever teach a creative writing class, how awesome of a writing assignment would this be? Because that's what it made me think of immediately. Okay. You have to write a story. It starts with an artist seeing a ghost and ends with a Neanderthal strangling a man. How you get there doesn't matter. Depending on the age group, most of them write competitively against Scottish. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Wait, it's a competition? [00:29:25] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker A: Oh, okay. What do you win? [00:29:27] Speaker C: Not money. [00:29:28] Speaker A: Okay, I'm out. Speaking of beginnings. So, all right, I go down to the canyon. Why? I don't know why I'm Talking like Norm MacDonald all of a sudden, but hey there, canyon. So you go down to the canyon and whatever she's doing, painting, having a little lunch, sees her sister. She gets lost. Her sister guides her out. [00:29:52] Speaker D: Right. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Guided by a swarf. [00:29:54] Speaker D: A swarf? [00:29:55] Speaker A: By the way, I was going to ask. I'd never. I couldn't understand the word. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Never heard Papa swarf, Andy swarf, sister swarf. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I've never heard. [00:30:05] Speaker C: It wasn't a Neanderthal. It was Gargamel. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Have you heard the term swarf before? [00:30:09] Speaker B: Never. [00:30:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:10] Speaker C: I exhausted every Internet search I could think of to try to determine whether this was some obscure real bit of folklore or if he was just crafty enough to make it sound like real folklore. Because I could see no reference to this. Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:25] Speaker C: Anywhere. [00:30:26] Speaker B: It seems like a neighbor to will of the wisp with a sort of shape changing. [00:30:30] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. There's so much shape shifting folklore from all different cultures and time periods. So, yeah. [00:30:39] Speaker A: So you get home to your. Your reverse threes company bachelor pad and. Which, I'm sorry, I get hung up on. Like, where do you live? What's going on? Who are these? [00:30:50] Speaker C: Artists colony. [00:30:51] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. She told the operator that. Or the operator told her. Oh, you live in the artist colony. That's how we found out. [00:30:58] Speaker D: Right. [00:30:59] Speaker A: The operator was very Judgy about where she lived. So you get back there and you say. You just walk in. What are you doing? I'm trying to call my sister. [00:31:09] Speaker D: Oh. [00:31:09] Speaker A: And then you give her for that for some reason. And then mansplain how to get the operator. And then. My point is this. You walk in that door and you go, holy crap, guess what happened. Bishop's got a weird way of not understanding how the story works. [00:31:30] Speaker C: Here's where I'm going to totally disagree with you. I think this, like a lot of other Scott Bishop scripts, has a strong opening. Yes. He's not a natural realist in terms of the dialogue itself. I mean, no, David Mamet, it's not how real people talk. But I think for a tense, interesting opening scene to something you know is going to be mysterious and something strange has to happen. Them giving her a hard time and her being kind of serious. There's something really urgent. The mystery of, like, what's so important to her. And these guys that don't take it seriously at all creates to me an interesting tension that hooks me in. When I first heard this, I went, ooh, could this maybe be the one sort of intriguing, mysterious opening from Scott Bishop that. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Nope, she's gonna hold the football for me this time. [00:32:21] Speaker C: So it fell apart for me after that call. But I liked that entity of the story. I think it's strong. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Scott Bishop does really well, which is create this uncertain mood that is. It's. I feel deliberate, and their dialogue is unnatural. Even, as you say, their behavior is a little odd. Clearly, there's a mood of uncertainty and mystery that I find it does its job really well. And then listening to it this time, I know dark fantasy. I know it's coming, but I'm listening. I'm enjoying this. Why is it called the Curse of the Neanderthal? How is it. It's coming. It's coming. I don't want it to be there, [00:33:10] Speaker C: but all right, there it is. [00:33:17] Speaker B: And then, like, is this the painting you're working on? Like, oh, I'm so interested in this mystery. You painted someone into this painting. You didn't even realize it. Like, this is great. [00:33:26] Speaker C: I'd like another very there it is. Jamesian type of mom. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Times have we said that you hit on the story. I rewrote one of his because he didn't understand his own story. Again, it always boils down to this. I feel like I'm wrapping it up already. But it boils down to this. Are we giving him credit, too much credit for creating Dreamlike and Stream of consciousness. [00:33:56] Speaker C: Let's be very clear. When you say we, you don't include yourself. [00:33:59] Speaker D: You. [00:33:59] Speaker C: This is an accusation. [00:34:02] Speaker A: I will say no. I will say that the way I get through them is remembering, oh, maybe if I look at it from that lens of this is more dreamlike and people aren't reacting correctly and saying weird things and relationships are odd and decisions are weird. And if I do that, it actually becomes more enjoyable. So I don't throw that away. That that could be a possibility. What I'm saying is we are left with this again. Is it on purpose or is he a terrible writer? [00:34:35] Speaker C: It no longer matters to me. This is. I mean, I do think this is a total reader response thing. Like, it is consistent. [00:34:44] Speaker A: There's that. [00:34:45] Speaker C: And it gets a response from me that is positive overall. A sensation that I enjoy experiencing listening to these really weird, incredibly unpredictable stories. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Belligerently unpredictable. [00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:01] Speaker B: I refuse to allow anyone the possibility of knowing what's gonna happen. [00:35:08] Speaker C: Yeah. It's not like the characters are unreliable narrators. He's the unreliable narrator. Right. Like, you don't believe that anything he tells you is true. I mean, true narratively. You don't believe, oh, this is gonna be a story about ghosts or Smurfs. Sw. Swarthy Smurfs, apparently. And so I enjoy the experience and I enjoy the unintentional humor of it all. [00:35:37] Speaker A: I know they use the same actors over and over again, same people. Because it's from the station in Oklahoma. There is a consistency to every one of his to how they perform it, and I hate it. I just find them so uninteresting or ridiculous in their performances. Again, though. [00:35:58] Speaker C: But if I. But they're not ridiculous in the way I associate with Hammy or overacting. It seems like they possibly all took Quaaludes before doing this. And it's not what I associate with this kind of over the top tropey horror. [00:36:16] Speaker B: And like every presentation of a dream that you will see, like, not a literal dream, but of. This is a dream of images and things like this that's presented in any story, in any media. This will talk in that. That it's ambiguous but seemingly meaningful and told earnestly but kind of hazily. It's that exact tone that all the characters speak in which it invokes that experience. Me like, this is having a dream. He pulled a pleasant surprise on. She does reach her sister. Her sister's fine. They have a nice little conversation. Okay. I'm engaged. What is the answer to this mystery? Not that. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:01] Speaker B: And the turn Is so abrupt and weird to like. All right, I have a scientist who let me just read Neanderthal language. [00:37:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:37:12] Speaker D: What? [00:37:15] Speaker C: And that he's just staying at the artist's colony. [00:37:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:19] Speaker C: I assume someone's painting him in the nude. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Of course [00:37:24] Speaker C: he's a nude model. As his backup gig anthropologist in repose. It also had the really strange nightmare nightbird screeching. Yeah, that sounded huge, didn't they? They sounded like man sized, hulking creatures going. It sounded like the surgeon birds. [00:37:49] Speaker A: It sounded. [00:37:50] Speaker C: Remember that mysterious traveler episode? [00:37:52] Speaker A: Sounded exactly like what you just did. Some guy just going, it's terrible. It's just terrible. Didn't sound scary. It was the guy screaming 10ft off a mic. [00:38:05] Speaker C: I mean, I think he wanted something that didn't sound right. Like in a dream can make the [00:38:11] Speaker A: argument, though, that you can write that way easily. [00:38:14] Speaker B: I'll argue with that point. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Okay. [00:38:16] Speaker B: Dream logic is hard to do because it has to be emotionally consistent. Like, it's very intuitive. And feeling like this follows this for no logical reason, but it has a connection that you feel, which is why it's so jarring when it breaks in Scott Bishop stories. It's hard to articulate why this is of a piece, why it goes together, why its narrative, although nonsensical, has an impact. And then when he stops doing it, it's so jarring. [00:38:49] Speaker A: I am just at a loss. Every time we bring one of these two, figure out how to feel and [00:38:58] Speaker B: I'm sorry makes you mad in the same way over and over again. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Yeah, not mad. Just. I want to know. I just want to talk to the guy. I just want five minutes with him and say, what were you doing? And then I can say, oh, so you were terrible, or, oh, you were quite brilliant. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just want to know if it's on purpose or not. I just want to know. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Chasing down that same question. I think he's neither. [00:39:26] Speaker C: Okay. [00:39:27] Speaker B: I think it's purposeful because he does it consistently every time. And I don't know if it's like he's got something brained in mind and he just fails at it over and over again or just over and over, like, this is it. This is exactly what I wanted. [00:39:39] Speaker C: I think it is exactly what he thinks he wanted. Because I think you would get wilder swings from episode to episode. I think to your point, like, it's so consistent. This has to be what he wanted to achieve, or else he was just the most unhappy, depressed man on earth. I did it again. I was doing so well, this was gonna be the one where I really turned it around when I wrote the same story again. [00:40:10] Speaker B: Turns in the script to the rest of the cast. How does it end, Scott? Wrong. It ends wrong. It ends wrong. [00:40:19] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:40:21] Speaker B: I couldn't stop myself. [00:40:24] Speaker C: I think he taps into his subconscious and into his imagination in a really provocative way. And that is what I find appealing. But that's a subjective thing. Obviously all art is subjective. But to try to talk somebody else into how I experience dreams and how this runs in parallel with that is such an extra subjective experience that I just think it's a pointless exercise. And yet I brought another episode of Dark Fantasy. So who's the most Scott Bishop of us right now? Right. Who's the glutton for punishment? [00:41:05] Speaker A: Can I ask you this? When you're listening to this, do you hear in the background, these are the pros and cons of hitchhiking? [00:41:18] Speaker B: How so? [00:41:19] Speaker C: I know the Roger Waters album of which you speak. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Giant stream of consciousness dream. That entire album. That's what it reminds me of. [00:41:28] Speaker C: I think this would be less effective. Back to Tim's point about how it moves like a dream and then it seems to re enter something really narratively recognizable and tropey. And then you swerve off into this alternate world for a while and swerve back and it keeps you disoriented. [00:41:49] Speaker B: And the opening X sections, when he is just creating a foggy, ambiguous world that has enough of a narrative to carry you through. But it's strange. He does that well. And when he grounds it, he's just a mess. It might even be like if he did a dreamlike version that suddenly snaps into reality and he wrote that reality as well. That would be a different thing. But these second halves of these stories are just ridiculous. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:21] Speaker C: I feel the second half of the story is him trying to write a more standard horror story. And it's not as strong. It's when people speak in really over the top expositional ways, giving us information about what the Neanderthal was like and oh, it's a curse. We know someone's going to die. It feels more like something out of the Hermit's Cave, one of those really, like, clunky trope driven horror radio shows. Whereas the first half, that emphasizes some weird folkloric guide thing. And the way we enter the story through the weird tension of the interrupted phone call and just the setting of an artist's colony and the weird canyon that just happens to be there. Yeah, really contextualized. That's the stuff that I find captivating and mysterious and otherworldly. So I think you're right. It's the grounding that is where it falls apart and becomes literal. There was literally caveman bones. They came to life, they killed a guy and. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:29] Speaker C: And that's where. He doesn't have the technical skill to make that interesting in that first half. [00:43:36] Speaker B: And there was suddenly an earthquake and the cliff fell off. And that's kind of, you know, in the narrative. Like, it's just a plot point. You get stuck in a canyon, but it's. What. There was an earthquake and the cliff just turned into a sheer wall. No explanation of that at all. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:54] Speaker C: But within that part of the story, you wonder, was she hallucinating? Did she fall asleep? Were they all taking drugs at the artist colony? [00:44:03] Speaker A: Is artist colony code for commun. [00:44:07] Speaker B: It's akin, I think, a little bit. [00:44:09] Speaker C: I don't know if it's a permanent residence. You could go live there a while and just focus on your art. Or stay a bunch of smelly hippies. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Is that what we're dealing with here? 1940s hippies? [00:44:19] Speaker B: It might have also been a little. Where wealthy people will go to feel productive. [00:44:24] Speaker A: So they're wearing shoes. [00:44:28] Speaker B: I can see now why you didn't enjoy this. [00:44:32] Speaker C: I love when they go to the museum and they see that the Neanderthal was assembled and placed in a standing position. I was trying to imagine all the other provocative positions that the Doctor may have put this Neanderthal skeleton in. Just like I want to. Sprawled on his back, legs in the air. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Museum show. That was bodies that had been sort of, you know, the muscles were on display and shellacked or whatever. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Kind of a body horror. [00:45:02] Speaker B: Yes. Type of music where they're playing poker or. [00:45:04] Speaker C: Yeah, playing poker. [00:45:06] Speaker B: It's in one of the Bond movies. Oh. [00:45:09] Speaker A: He's in a sprinter's starting position. [00:45:13] Speaker C: And the. [00:45:15] Speaker B: Fixing the sink. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Checking the pizza. [00:45:19] Speaker D: Yes. [00:45:23] Speaker B: I had thought you just have him stand. [00:45:27] Speaker C: No, not like that. Less pelvic thrust. Vanif, which was apparently the name of the Neanderthal, was so civil when he bumps into them in the corridor. I love that exchange. [00:45:46] Speaker B: I do, too, because I took all the subtext of like, hey, I can't really go into this right now, but I understand that you were there. My bones were revealed. But it wasn't you who did this. So no bad feelings here. And just so you know, it was me that helped to get out of the canyon, and I can't just. Can you tell me what the Doctor is? [00:46:04] Speaker C: Yes. [00:46:05] Speaker A: If that was the actual dialogue. [00:46:08] Speaker C: But also I love because they have the conversation. He walks away and then they slowly piece together. Wait. He had a really big forehead and bushy eye. And they put together all the pieces. [00:46:19] Speaker B: Well, that was common in Oklahoma to after you meet someone to start discussing how they seemed physically out loud. [00:46:25] Speaker C: You have often pointed out at old time radio scenes that make you paranoid. That one makes me paranoid. Like especially when I have any interaction with young people that seems to go smoothly, I just assume I walk away and they go, did you notice how old he was? Do you see his eyebrows? Was that hair coming out of his ears? [00:46:46] Speaker A: You just took a break a few minutes ago. You should have heard me and Tim. [00:46:50] Speaker B: Oh, it was recording, was it? [00:46:53] Speaker C: Yes. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:46:56] Speaker B: I was trying to figure out how to single to you, like put your pants back. [00:47:05] Speaker C: I believe that it was an artist colony because there was some little snotty artistic criticism going on. Or at least that I sensed when one of the men looking at her painting said, if your perspective is right, that creature is 8ft tall. Made me think like this whole thing was just all the perspectives were off. Gigantic stick figure in the foreground as if it's in the background. And it also has one of my favorite dark fantasy lines, which is I've studied anatomy enough to recognize the clavicle. [00:47:40] Speaker D: Right. [00:47:42] Speaker C: I've just never heard anyone be that confident about a clavicle. [00:47:46] Speaker B: I recognize that as artists call anyone else on a jet of like, I have actually taken a class in anatomy. I'm not just drawing stick figures here. [00:47:56] Speaker C: The last thing that I really enjoyed in here is when Reggie just adamantly says swarfs do appear in this vicinity. When they're questioning swarfs, as one would. And one of them responds with, but that's weird, right? [00:48:17] Speaker A: That's weird. [00:48:19] Speaker C: Which did send me down this whole rabbit hole trying to figure out when and how weird changed meaning from at this time was like weird fiction, right? That meant something supernatural and occult to now we just mean like, huh, unexpected. It's almost a shoulder atypical. Yeah. But then before that it was weird as in fate. It was connected to fortune telling. And what I discovered is it's all thanks to Macbeth. Back to our. Is it Shakespeare or the Bible? This one is Shakespeare. And they were the Weird sisters, the witches when Shakespeare wrote it. Because weird meant fate, seeing the future as the witches do. But as that meaning faded, they just became known as the three witches. And weird people started to associate with witches themselves as these supernatural occult beings and not fate. Or fortune telling or prophecy. [00:49:33] Speaker B: And eventually into, like, sort of nerds. [00:49:35] Speaker C: Yes. Weird science. And now you know the rest of the story. So, yeah, we can vote on this winner. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Who wants to start? [00:49:51] Speaker B: The things I love about dark fantasy. This gave that to me. The things that make me crazy about it. This gave that to me. It is a unique, painful pleasure to be sitting there listening to this going, why is this called Curse of the Neanderthal? There's no curse. There's no Neanderthal. But it's coming. And all this stuff I'm invested in right now, Pointless. [00:50:17] Speaker C: It's gonna be swept away. [00:50:19] Speaker B: And it's like having an uncle who plays the same joke on you over and over again. I don't like this joke, but I love that uncle. [00:50:29] Speaker C: Wow. [00:50:30] Speaker B: So is it a classic? [00:50:32] Speaker C: No. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Does it stand the test of time? Not really, but I like it. I'll listen to more of these. [00:50:39] Speaker A: I hate it. I don't even know what to say. I think parts of it are interesting to discuss. Like we did. I like the discussion. There it is. I like when we bring dark fantasy because I like the discussion. I also like how you guys bring different viewpoints and angles about what I'm sitting and listening to and going the whole time. And then here you guys have this. So it's like guilty pleasure. [00:51:10] Speaker B: You have a little discussion with Scott Bishop, he leaves, and then we all start talking about him. [00:51:14] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Right. [00:51:16] Speaker A: It is not a classic. It is not. Does not stand the test of time. But I don't begrudge you bringing it. [00:51:26] Speaker C: For me, this would be a dark fantasy classic within the dark fantasy umbrella if Neanderthal did not appear in the title. As Tim pointed out, you're just waiting for it. And, you know, like the ZWARF stuff, I can't get invested in this. Imagine a disappointment if Spawn of the Subhuman had been called Song of the Gorilla Pilot. Right. We'd just be waiting for it. And so I think I might be more taken with what the f of it if I weren't waiting for that [00:52:00] Speaker A: twist onion swarf come and knock on my door. [00:52:05] Speaker C: But, yeah, for me, I just think his weaknesses still result in something so weirdly idiosyncratic and extravagant that they almost swarf. Like, take on the appearance of strengths as you're listening to it. And then you, like, think about it and wait, no, that could not have been a swarf. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Swarf. Take a security team down to engineering. Tim, tell him stuff, please. [00:52:35] Speaker B: Go visit ghoulishdelights.com. Home of this podcast. You will find too many other episodes of Dark Fantasy that we have listened to. We are gluttons for punishment and joy. But you'll also find all kinds of other sorts of series. Like, if you like, I will listen to anything except more Dark Fantasy. We've got you covered. You can leave comments on episodes. You can find links to our store. If you'd like to buy some swag, a hoodie. I'm wearing a hoodie right now. [00:53:02] Speaker A: And a hat, but not pants. [00:53:06] Speaker B: And you'll also find a link to our Patreon page. Yes. [00:53:09] Speaker C: Go to patreon.com themorals and support this podcast. In exchange for your gracious donations, we will give you all kinds of bonus materials. I mean, so really it's not a donation. This is an exchange. You give us money, we give you stuff. And it also makes this podcast possible because we need to pay our mortgages. So thank you. So please go to Ghoulish Delights. We'll go there too. But first go to the place where you can give us money. That's patreon.com themorals and become a member. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Today we need morals. Pants. [00:53:51] Speaker B: More pants. [00:53:52] Speaker A: We need pants in the swag stuff. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Moral Zubas. [00:53:55] Speaker A: No pants. Those aren't slacks. Slacks. The mysterious old Radio Listening Society Theater Company performs live on stage recreations of classic old time radio shows and a lot of our own original work. To see us performing live audio drama on stage, go to ghoulishdelights.com to see where we're performing, when and how to get tickets and what we're performing. We've got a lot of shows coming up, so we'll see you there. Also, we record the audio of those shows and as a Patreon, you get to listen to them even if you're not there. Or you could go and then listen to them again. I don't know what's coming up next. [00:54:35] Speaker C: Next is your pick, Eric. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Aha. We are going back to the creaking, squeaking door of Inner Sanctum in an episode called the Corridor of Doom. Until then, look out, [00:55:09] Speaker D: Fantasy. I am captain kingman. Ra.