Episode 323: Gerald

[00:00:27] Speaker A: Welcome to the mysterious old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:37] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:00:37] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:38] Speaker B: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Today we return to the listener library for suggestion from our mysterious patron. [00:00:48] Speaker C: Tim is a generous supporter of the mysterious old radio listening society, financially as well as creatively. His designs can be seen at our threadless shop, including an amazing death to carrots t shirt inspired by the CBS Radio workshop play a pride of carrots. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Today, Tim recommends we listen to an episode of Nightfall entitled Gerald. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Nightfall was a supernatural horror anthology produced by the Canadian Broadcasting Company between July 1980 and June 1983. Although inspired by the golden age of radio, Nightfall took a more modern approach to horror, pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable on canadian radio at the time. The intense situations, graphic sound effects and occasional use of strong language led some CBC affiliates to drop the series entirely. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Gerald was written by writer and producer Bill Gray. Although Nightfall had an executive producer, series creator Bill Howell, individual episodes were produced at various CBC radio facilities across Canada. Bill Gray, working from Calgary, acted as producer for two episodes, both of which he wrote Gerald and the dentist. [00:02:03] Speaker B: And now let's listen to Gerald from Nightfall, first broadcast on the CBC, January 8, 1982. [00:02:10] Speaker A: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music and listen to. [00:02:25] Speaker D: The voices on national public radio. [00:02:29] Speaker E: NPR House presents Nightboat. [00:02:43] Speaker F: In the dream you are falling lost in the listening distance as dark locks in. [00:02:55] Speaker G: Um. [00:02:59] Speaker F: Nightfall. Good evening. Do you know where your children are? Do you know what they're thinking about when they're thinking about you? [00:03:16] Speaker D: Do you know where your parents are? The play by Bill Gray of CBC Calgary is called. Gerald. [00:03:27] Speaker G: Gerald. Gerald. He wants to talk to you. What? Who? That man over there. He wants to talk to you. What are you talking about? There's no one there. Not there there. See? He's waving at you. Oh yeah? Well, he's not waving at me. You know, he just wants to find. Hey, where are you going? He's coming over here. I don't want to talk to him. You talk to me. You're a friend. Don't like that guy. Come on, Ricky. Just a minute, William. Ricky, come on back. Hi. I've got to get back for supper, so I'll see you. No, I can't do that. It's too awful. You shouldn't ask me. No, because it's not. No. [00:04:13] Speaker D: Hey. [00:04:18] Speaker G: Please don't. Thank you. I'm sorry. I just forgot, that's all. I can do it. I'll do it for you. It wasn't really that hard. [00:04:36] Speaker D: So I went over to the garage with him and had a look. Well, it looked pretty bad, even to me. You know how much I know about cars, dad. [00:04:44] Speaker G: Mom, can I be excused? [00:04:45] Speaker H: What? I guess so. But you've hardly touched your food, Gerald. I thought you loved this. [00:04:51] Speaker G: Yeah, I guess I'm not hungry. Excuse me. [00:04:55] Speaker D: Are you feeling all right, son? You look a bit pale. [00:04:58] Speaker G: I'm all right, dad. I'm just kind of tired, I guess. Think I'll lie down, take a nap. [00:05:03] Speaker D: Okay. Some tea, dear? [00:05:09] Speaker H: Thanks. That's sure not like him usually. Can't even bribe him into taking a nap. [00:05:17] Speaker D: Well, he's growing. Happens to all kids eventually. [00:05:21] Speaker I: I suppose so. [00:05:23] Speaker H: But he seems to be acting so. Oh, I don't know. The last few days he's just seemed so much quieter than usual, that's all. [00:05:31] Speaker D: He'll be all right, Sarah. Well, I'd better finish up and get back to that sermon. Nearly finished. If I can just simply figure out exactly how to put it when I tell him about the new. No, no, you drink your tea. I'm getting up anyway. It's probably one of the women from the auxiliary. Winnie tells me they've been having some trouble with the bake sale. Too many butter tarts or something. Hello? Oh, hi, Betty. How are you? What? Oh, no. No. That's what. Oh, dear Lord. Oh, no. How could anyone do a thing like that? [00:06:19] Speaker F: Oh, no. [00:06:19] Speaker D: Gerald's heart will be broken. He's had that dog all his, right? Yes. Yes. Thanks for calling, Betty. All right, thanks. Goodbye. [00:06:34] Speaker H: Alex, what is it? Something happened to Tom, Sarah. [00:06:40] Speaker D: Tom's been killed. That was Betty Tompkins. She found Tom in her backyard about an hour ago. He'd been killed by someone. She called the vet. Thought maybe he was still alive and that. Said he'd been tortured. [00:07:04] Speaker G: It just wasn't hard at all that time. But why did you want me to do it? Why did you what? Oh, no. I didn't tell anyone. You told me not to, so I didn't. Right. Hey, have you got a name? Really? I didn't think I could say that. What is it? No. No, I couldn't say it. Could I call you something else? No, I couldn't call you that. That's too silly. Why don't I call you Tom after my dog. Sure. Come on in. [00:07:57] Speaker D: Gerald. Could you turn that down a bit, please? [00:08:02] Speaker G: Sure. Is that okay? [00:08:05] Speaker D: Fine. I thought you were taking a nap. [00:08:08] Speaker G: I was, but I just wasn't tired all of a sudden. [00:08:12] Speaker D: Gerald. Gerald, I've got some bad news. It's about Tom. [00:08:19] Speaker G: Oh, yes? Have you seen him? I let him out this morning, but he didn't come back for supper. Funny, he never misses his food, does he? Not usually. [00:08:29] Speaker D: Gerald, Tom's been killed. [00:08:36] Speaker G: How? [00:08:37] Speaker D: But he was killed. Hit by a car. [00:08:44] Speaker G: Just killed him. [00:08:46] Speaker D: So I gather. I'm very sorry, Gerald. [00:08:52] Speaker G: Oh, that's okay, dad. Tom was almost twelve years old. That's pretty old for a dog, isn't it? I mean, he'd have died of old age soon anyway, wouldn't he? And you know, he was getting kind of blind. A couple of days ago I saw him walk right into the couch in the living room. Didn't even see it. That's probably how the car got him. Guess everybody's got to die sooner or later. A dad, like it says in the Bible. So I guess even dogs got to die too. Right, dad? [00:09:42] Speaker I: Alex. Alex, over here. [00:09:44] Speaker D: Evening, Larry. How's his night tonight? I'm surprised I found you. [00:09:50] Speaker I: Always the same on Friday. Here, sit down. [00:09:52] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:09:53] Speaker I: Oh, here. [00:09:54] Speaker D: I ordered your draft. Thanks, but only one. Larry. I must be a good example to my flock. [00:10:01] Speaker I: Alex, I got to talk to you. [00:10:04] Speaker D: Problem? Your Family's okay? [00:10:07] Speaker G: Oh, fine. [00:10:08] Speaker I: But it's about the dorms. I know you're dead set against anyone trying to do anything. But with the police so busy these days. Well, some of the guys were wondering. [00:10:18] Speaker D: Now I can't agree to anything. [00:10:19] Speaker I: Just a minute. [00:10:20] Speaker D: Hear me out. [00:10:22] Speaker I: Some of the guys had talked and beer talked, mostly trying to find a guy. What I was wondering was if maybe you and I, a couple of the others, could, I don't know, take a look around before anybody else gets carried away. [00:10:34] Speaker D: I think things like that can get very dangerous. [00:10:37] Speaker I: I know, but I'm worried. [00:10:40] Speaker F: Will you at least think about. [00:10:42] Speaker D: Yes. Yes, I'll think about it. [00:10:45] Speaker I: Hey, thanks, Alex. I know it's only some dogs, but. [00:10:48] Speaker D: It'S hard to imagine how anybody could be so disturbed. Larry, I can't figure out how a man's soul can become so twisted. [00:10:58] Speaker I: You're sure it's some guy doing it? [00:11:00] Speaker D: What? Seems to be no question about animals. So it's a man? If you can call him that. [00:11:16] Speaker G: Gerald? Gerald, is that you? Ricky? Ricky, you there? Over here by the tree. Boy, it's really dark out here tonight, isn't it? I could hardly see if you were here yet. Look, Gerald, you better have something good to show me. If my mom knew I was out this time of night. She doesn't know, does she? Of course not. [00:11:39] Speaker H: I snuck out like you said. [00:11:41] Speaker G: Do your parents know you're out? Are you kidding? This late? I climbed out of my tree. Wish I had a tree. I always have to sneak past the living room. It's not easy, you know. Yeah, going out on the tree is best. Okay, let's go. Just over this way. What's this all about, anyway? What are you going to show me? It's something I learned how to do. Remember that man who always talked to me after baseball? Yeah. Well, he showed me how to do something kind of strange. But it's pretty neat after a while. I didn't like that guy. Gave me the creeps. I don't think I want to know about him. It's okay, Ricky. Really. Just over here. I'll show you what happens. I don't know. What if some wild animal comes out and tries to get us? That's dumb, Ricky. There aren't any wild animals here. We're too close to town. Yeah, well, this better be good, whatever it is. It is. I promise. Okay? Okay. Now we stop here. Wait a. Wait? Wait for what? I thought we were going to she. Wait just a minute. Here he is. Hi, Tom. Gerald, who are you talking to? Here he is. I brought him like you said. Cheryl. What's that, Cheryl pulling at me? Okay, there. I've got it. Here. Hey, that one's really different than the others. Tom. [00:13:35] Speaker D: Alex, I'm glad you could come. The boy's mother is in the waiting room. All right. Joe, do you think maybe a wolf or a dog could. I don't think so, Alex. I treated animal wounds before. [00:13:50] Speaker F: Nothing like this. [00:13:52] Speaker D: The boy was mangled, torn apart, but almost surgically. Alex, there was nothing we could do. He was gone before. I'm sure it was quick. Joe, do you think what happened to Ricky was the same as with the dogs? [00:14:12] Speaker F: I don't know for sure yet, but. [00:14:16] Speaker D: From what I heard, it sounds pretty similar. I guess I was hoping you'd be able to put it down to an animal attack. [00:14:23] Speaker F: I hate. [00:14:26] Speaker D: But you have seen the way he's been open. It was all much too precise and. [00:14:33] Speaker F: Deliberate looking to be an animal. [00:14:36] Speaker D: I think Ricky was murdered. [00:14:53] Speaker G: But it was so different, Tom. Not like the dogs at all. What? Oh, yeah. It was a lot neater, better somehow, and more bigger something. I liked it the best so far. Hey, Tom, I was wondering. What do you do with them after I give them to you? Save them. That's what my father says he does. But I guess it's different with you eggs. Oh, and Tom, how come Ricky screamed like that? Didn't he hear you say it would be all right? How come he screamed? Oh, I see. So they have to scream. [00:15:45] Speaker D: Gerald? Gerald, are you coming down? [00:15:49] Speaker G: Yeah. Oh, dad, just a minute. [00:15:52] Speaker H: Goodness, I've waited till morning. Alex. [00:15:54] Speaker D: Gerald, we've got to find out who's responsible. [00:15:56] Speaker H: But Gerald won't know. [00:15:58] Speaker D: I know he won't. But we've got to quiz all the kids. Find out if they've seen anybody strange. [00:16:03] Speaker H: It is going to be hard on him, Alex. He and Ricky have been best friends for years. [00:16:08] Speaker D: It's hard on all of us, Sarah. But if we don't. [00:16:11] Speaker G: Hi, mom. Dad, is something wrong? Mom, he's fine. [00:16:15] Speaker D: Gerald, when was the last time you saw Evans Ricky? [00:16:22] Speaker G: This afternoon, I guess. Right after school. We walked home together. [00:16:28] Speaker D: Now, I want you to remember. Think really carefully. Did you see anyone strange? Anyone you didn't know in the neighborhood? [00:16:37] Speaker G: No. [00:16:38] Speaker D: Are you sure? Gerald, this is very important. [00:16:42] Speaker G: I'm sure, dad. There was nobody I saw except the other kids. What's the matter? What's going on? [00:16:50] Speaker D: Something terrible has happened, son. [00:16:52] Speaker G: What? [00:16:54] Speaker D: Ricky, your friend Ricky has passed away. [00:16:59] Speaker G: Oh. When? [00:17:01] Speaker D: Earlier tonight. He had. Ricky was hurt very badly and he died. [00:17:10] Speaker G: What happened to hurt him? [00:17:12] Speaker D: We don't. No one's sure. Some people think it might be the same. [00:17:18] Speaker G: Dad, where do you figure Ricky will go now? Now that he's dead? [00:17:24] Speaker D: Well, I'm sure he'll go to heaven. Now. I know this is upsetting for you, but. [00:17:32] Speaker G: That's okay, dad. Hey, mom. He shouldn't cry, you know. He just died. He's just gone somewhere else. Everybody has to die. Right, dad? Just like in the Bible. Right, dad? [00:17:49] Speaker D: Yes, that's right. [00:17:51] Speaker G: Can I go to my room now? I've got a test tomorrow. Don't want to be tired for it. [00:17:56] Speaker D: Well. [00:17:58] Speaker H: Gerald, are you all right? Do you feel all right? [00:18:01] Speaker G: Sure, mom. See you in the morning. Good night. [00:18:09] Speaker H: Alex. I'm worried about him, Sarah. [00:18:14] Speaker D: He's in shock. [00:18:15] Speaker H: It's not just that. [00:18:16] Speaker D: What do you mean? [00:18:18] Speaker H: Gerald has been acting not himself lately. He seems less active than he used to be since spend so much time alone in his room. [00:18:29] Speaker D: That's pretty normal for a boy his age. [00:18:32] Speaker H: I know that. But there's something different. Look at how Ricky's death hasn't fazed him at all. That's more than shock. And he's so humorless lately, nothing seems to make him laugh or cry. [00:18:46] Speaker D: Well, when this is all over, I'll have a talk with him. [00:18:49] Speaker H: When what is all over? [00:18:51] Speaker D: Well, Larry and I and a couple of others have decided to form a small group, see if we can't find out who killed Ricky. That's for the police, perhaps, but they haven't turned up anything, so why? [00:19:05] Speaker H: Alex, there is something seriously wrong with your son that must come first. This manhound is none of your business. [00:19:15] Speaker D: It is my business. Every Sunday I get up on that pulpit and tell people about the basic goodness of man. And then someone. Some thing like this happens. I've got to stop it. I've got to know why. Right here, Larry. [00:19:40] Speaker I: More or less over there in that clearing. Can you see it? [00:19:43] Speaker D: I can just make it out. [00:19:45] Speaker I: Well, that's where we found him. Looks like he's been dragged away and then propped up against that tree. [00:19:51] Speaker D: Dear Lord. Well, if there's anything to the business of criminals returning to the scene of the crime. Somehow, though, I doubt it. [00:19:59] Speaker I: Alex, any idea who it might be? I mean, do you think it might be somebody from town? [00:20:05] Speaker D: I won't even let myself consider it, but whoever it is is a sick person. I don't know why or how people can. I can't find a way to explain it, Larry. [00:20:15] Speaker I: Yeah, well, it sure doesn't make any sense, does it? [00:20:18] Speaker D: Why does he let it happen? Why does a God of love take away an innocent? And by the hand of someone so twisted? I can't find the logic. Sometimes, Larry, I don't understand. Sometimes I just hope we find the. [00:20:33] Speaker I: Bastard before he does anything else. [00:20:35] Speaker D: What was that? What? [00:20:37] Speaker I: I thought I heard a noise. Just past that big oak. Can't see, though. Not enough moon. Look, just over there. There it is again. [00:20:45] Speaker D: Right over that way. [00:20:46] Speaker I: I'll go take a look. You stay here. If it's anything, I'll try and get him between us. [00:20:51] Speaker D: Larry, just be careful. [00:20:53] Speaker I: Right. Probably just a raccoon or something. Hey, look, you better come out of there. [00:21:12] Speaker G: Okay? [00:21:14] Speaker I: Look, I got a gun here. Now, why don't you just come out of there? [00:21:18] Speaker G: Hi, Mr. Johnson. Are you going to shoot me? What? [00:21:22] Speaker I: Gerald, what the hell are you doing here? Don't you know there's a curfew on? You're not supposed to be out here. [00:21:29] Speaker G: We just thought we'd help out. Are you going to shoot us, Mr. Johnson? [00:21:33] Speaker I: Don't be ridiculous. Of course not. You just scared me half the. What do you mean? [00:21:38] Speaker D: Us. [00:21:39] Speaker I: Hey, who else is out here with you? [00:21:42] Speaker G: My friend Tom. [00:21:43] Speaker I: Yeah, and where's he hiding? [00:21:45] Speaker G: Nowhere. He's right here. You just can't see him. [00:21:50] Speaker I: All right, you tell your friend to come on out and we'll get you out of here. Your father's waiting for me, and I don't think he's going to be too happy about finding you here. Tom, come on out. Let's go, son. [00:22:00] Speaker G: You don't understand, Mr. Johnson. You can't see Tom unless he wants you to. And I guess he doesn't want you to right now, but here, come on over and you can shake hands with him. [00:22:11] Speaker I: Now look here, Gerald. I think you'd better stop this nonsense and come over. What the hell? [00:22:17] Speaker G: Tom doesn't like waiting very much. [00:22:19] Speaker I: Oh, my God. My head. [00:22:22] Speaker D: What's happening? [00:22:27] Speaker G: Okay, Tom, here, I got it. There you are. Wow, that's even nicer than Ricky's. I'm gonna get back up the tree and sneak back in before mom notices I'm gone. You coming up or. Oh. So I guess I'll see you tomorrow when we, uh. Oh, there's dad. He sure came back fast. I better hide Tom. He'd see me in the tree. What, tonight? Okay, well, I better talk to dad first. Wait for me. Okay. Dad? Dad, is that you? [00:23:26] Speaker D: Gerald? [00:23:27] Speaker G: Over here. Dad. [00:23:29] Speaker D: Gerald, what are you doing out at this time of night? I told you there was a curfew, and I expected you to understand. [00:23:35] Speaker G: It's all right, dad. I'm okay. [00:23:37] Speaker D: No, it is not all right. There's some maniac loose in the neighborhood, and I don't want you outside in the middle of. Gerald, what are you doing out here? [00:23:47] Speaker G: Nothing. Just fooling around, I guess. [00:23:50] Speaker D: Gerald, what's been going on here? [00:23:52] Speaker G: Hey, don't get mad. I'll tell you what happened. [00:23:56] Speaker D: I guess you'd better. [00:23:58] Speaker G: Well, something horrible has happened. This man. [00:24:03] Speaker D: What? Has somebody hurt you? [00:24:05] Speaker G: No, it's okay now, but you'd better come and look in the garage. [00:24:09] Speaker D: What's in there? [00:24:10] Speaker G: You just better come and look, dad. It'll be easier. [00:24:13] Speaker D: All right. There. Now, what's going on? [00:24:33] Speaker G: Okay. Tom. [00:24:34] Speaker D: What? Who are you talking to? [00:24:37] Speaker G: Tom. He's a friend of mine, but you can't see him unless he. [00:24:41] Speaker D: Oh, my God. [00:24:42] Speaker G: Oh, you can't see him. Great. He said he might let you see him on account of your special, sort of like. [00:24:48] Speaker D: Merciful Jesus. What are you. [00:24:51] Speaker F: Do I confirm or disturb your faith, Reverend? [00:24:55] Speaker D: Dear God in heaven. [00:24:57] Speaker F: Oh, not much point in calling to him, Reverend. You see, he doesn't exist. Never did, in fact. [00:25:05] Speaker D: Gerald. What do you know of this creature? [00:25:07] Speaker F: Gerald knows me very well. [00:25:10] Speaker D: A ghost. You're a ghost? I can see right through you. [00:25:15] Speaker F: So you can. [00:25:16] Speaker G: Yeah, dad, Tom's just a guy from one of the places you go after you die. [00:25:20] Speaker D: Hades. The place of Hellfire. It's all true then. What have you done to my son? [00:25:25] Speaker F: Satan. Not easily convinced, are you? But perhaps I am your Satan, Reverend. I do take the souls of your people. Not a soul, really, but something you would think of as a soul. [00:25:41] Speaker D: He will come in many disguises. [00:25:43] Speaker F: Your faith is right about one thing. There is life after death. Many other worlds exist on many different planes. After leaving this life, people go on to another. And then from there to another, and so on. A series of lives. I come from one of these other worlds. A very different world from this one. [00:26:08] Speaker D: And you come here and kill? [00:26:10] Speaker F: Well, yes, but with reason. On my world, there are advantages to having certain kinds of powers. A long time ago, I discovered that a life energy, what you might call a soul. Could be absorbed in such a way as to add to that power. So every now and then, when I am in need of a kind of strength. I visit your world. I'm afraid I may have been the cause of some of your religious superstitions. [00:26:48] Speaker D: What have you done to my son? [00:26:50] Speaker F: Nothing much. A little training, a lending of some power. You see, I'm not able to work completely alone. [00:26:59] Speaker D: Satan possessing my son. [00:27:02] Speaker F: That's not really true. But I did need Gerald's help. As you can see, there is so little of me that I can actually bring to your world that I would have problems doing two things at once. So as I am disposing of someone. Gerald catches their soul as they move in the confusion between this life and the next. A confusion intensified by surprise and pain. Gerald. [00:27:33] Speaker D: Gerald, get out of here quickly. [00:27:34] Speaker F: There is one tragedy with my business here. [00:27:38] Speaker D: Though. [00:27:38] Speaker F: Unfortunately, when I take a soul, its identity is lost. It ceases to exist. So perhaps, Reverend, there is a hell after all. Nothingness. Complete oblivion. Think of it, Reverend. A complete end. Nothing more to come. [00:28:04] Speaker D: No, that can't be. [00:28:08] Speaker F: Now, Gerald, what are you. [00:28:12] Speaker G: No. [00:28:20] Speaker F: Have you got it? [00:28:22] Speaker G: Yeah, I've got it. Boy, this one's really big. [00:28:25] Speaker F: His faith was strong, but he doubted. That's all we needed. Let me have it now. [00:28:35] Speaker G: No. I'm keeping it for myself. [00:28:39] Speaker D: What? [00:28:41] Speaker F: You can't. [00:28:43] Speaker G: It's my turn now, Tom. I know how to do it now. All of it. I'll keep them all like this one. It makes me feel really strong. Really strong. Tom. You'd better go away now. You don't belong here. This is my world. I think I could hurt you if I wanted to. Alex, is that you? It's me, mom. What are you doing down there? Hey, mom, come on downstairs for a minute. I've got something I want to. Sure. You. [00:29:46] Speaker E: Have just heard Gerald by Bill Gray. Featured tonight in his first radio role was Danny Hyam as Gerald with Mary Perry as Sarah, and Neil Denard as Alex. You heard Billy May Richards as Ricky with Eric Peterson as Larry. John Stocker played the doctor as well as the mysterious Tom. Our recording engineer is Brian Pape with sound effects by Matt Wilcott. And our production assistant is Peggy Este. Tonight's program was produced and directed by the series executive producer, Bill Howell. And now here is a final word from your host. [00:30:26] Speaker F: Hello again. Next week's nightfall features a new play on a theme that is becoming uncomfortingly familiar to regular listeners, that of finding missing bodies. Until then, careful of the edge. [00:30:49] Speaker A: That was Gerald from nightfall here in the mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric. I'm Tim. [00:30:57] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:30:58] Speaker A: That came from our generous patron, Tim. Who asked for that? What do we call those request? The word request just left my head. This is going to be a great episode. But Tim, thank you so much. And why I don't have a death to carrots t shirt yet is beyond me. I'm waiting for the death to carrots hoodie. Is that a possibility on our threadless store? Can we have hoodies? Yes. Okay. Can we get on that? Yes. Thank you. All right, let's vote. When we started this podcast, it was great on me when we did nightfall, and I'm now getting to the point where it's called in my head Nightfall funk. And I want a playlist of Nightfall music. Boy, they got into some funky grooves on this one. [00:31:48] Speaker C: Again, here's what's interesting about the poor choices in transition music this episode is. All of it ends up being jarring, but then it turns out to be diegetic. It plays into the next scene. The weird rock and roll music becomes the music that the kid is listening to in his room. The awful, whatever kind of music that was is what's playing at the called nightfall funk. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:14] Speaker C: So unlike some of the transitional music we've critiqued in the past, because it is utterly disconnected to the narrative. It's just like a monkey came in and put some tapes into the player. [00:32:27] Speaker B: I think that's Mr. Nightfall's brother in law who has a band? [00:32:31] Speaker A: Mr. Nightfall. [00:32:34] Speaker C: Mr. Nightfall and the monkey. [00:32:39] Speaker A: So this has a trope going on, and that is evil. Children are terrifying. That's tropey. [00:32:47] Speaker C: Two tropes, actually. [00:32:48] Speaker A: The other one being. [00:32:51] Speaker C: The devil, is actually some sort of science fiction, other dimensional character who reveals your beliefs are based on something that is exactly like magic, but you're still an idiot for thinking it's magic. [00:33:04] Speaker B: I'm going to come back to that with a more elaborate statement on that exact issue later. [00:33:08] Speaker C: But okay, I look forward to it. [00:33:10] Speaker A: We can't wait. [00:33:15] Speaker D: Yet. [00:33:15] Speaker C: We are. Somehow we're going to find a way to wait. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Let's put this out there just to start. I think the kid in this, who we find out later made his debut, his radioactive debut. I thought he was great. [00:33:27] Speaker C: He's good. [00:33:27] Speaker A: I thought he was really good. And he can get real touchy with radio drama, meaning kids can be played by adults, and I find that horrifyingly annoying sometimes, if not all the time. Or they can be played by kids that are precocious and it's too much. This ranks up there with and please help me. Thanksgiving dinner. Scream for help. [00:33:50] Speaker B: The screaming lady or the screaming woman? [00:33:52] Speaker C: The screaming woman. [00:33:54] Speaker A: There was one that was played by. [00:33:55] Speaker C: Thanksgiving with the screaming woman. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Thanksgiving with the screaming woman. But there was a couple of versions of that. And there was one where the girl was so good. She was just so. [00:34:03] Speaker C: I think that was the suspense version. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And I can't remember her name, but we did all sorts of research on her. [00:34:08] Speaker C: And incredibly precocious. But 100% a child. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And good. I thought this kid was great. That's all I'm trying to say. I thought he pulled this off real well. [00:34:17] Speaker B: I was wondering, is Tim trolling us? Because this hits a lot of hot button issues for us of like, risky on child actor, risky on animal torture, risky on funky music. This is walking across coals for us to listen to this and react. [00:34:36] Speaker A: I will say it's pretty good. [00:34:37] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:34:38] Speaker A: I will say it took me a while to shake the dog. Being tortured. I hated it. I'm glad we didn't have to listen to it. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:34:45] Speaker A: I was so sad about Tom. So sad. And that's a terrible name for a dog. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Another hot button issue. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Just learn how to name a dog Tom. That's just like, I'm busy. I'm eating cereal over the sink. I'm late for work. We're going to name the dog Tom. Let's go. [00:35:07] Speaker C: What would you have named this dog? [00:35:09] Speaker A: King's a great name for it. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Don't kill me. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Don't kill me. [00:35:13] Speaker C: Wait. I don't have a soul. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Puddles. Puddles is a good name. Bisquick. [00:35:21] Speaker C: Mr. Nightfall. [00:35:22] Speaker A: Mr. Nightfall, are we voting yet? Overall, I'm just really curious because I just want to rip the band aid off because I am really curious if you guys like this or just before we delve in. Did you like it, Tim? [00:35:38] Speaker B: As we've been saying, this is very trophy. This is very well trod territory. And I thought it trod it pretty well as we went. There were lots of little sidetracky things like that. Makes this a little more challenging to listen to. And one of them. I'll get into it now. [00:35:53] Speaker C: I think we've waited long enough. [00:35:55] Speaker B: I think you have. [00:35:56] Speaker C: You can come out of the timeout corner, Tim, and you can share your rant. [00:36:00] Speaker B: So I have been on both sides of this speech so many times as a storyteller playwright, or most often as a role playing game person, of, like, I'm going to have my big bad make a big speech explaining their whole worldview, their whole theocracy. Not theocracy, whatever their theology. They're going to explain this elaborate system that we've been hinting at going up, like we're approaching this. And mostly, just like, I want to hit it with a sword and take its gold. I don't care. I don't care. But, no, you're the devil. Oh, no, I'm not the devil. But you're kind of the devil. But this is kind of like going to. It's like going to hell. I don't want to listen to this speech. Not because it's poorly written, because I've heard this speech. I've given this speech so many times. [00:36:54] Speaker A: And I want to hit you with a sword and get your gold. Yes. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Exactly. What I can hear the author trying to stop me from skipping this part. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:03] Speaker B: This is the important part, which this is more personal about me than the actual content of the story, but I just wanted to hit him with the sword and take his gold. [00:37:13] Speaker A: And to back that up, one of the issues I had with this is, again, how would I write it? And that's not always a great approach to analyzing these stories and these radio shows, because there's a bunch of, of course, millions of ways to tell an effective story. But I didn't think it was necessary to hear him at all. I think there's something terrifying and scary to even. It's okay if the dad sees him, right? Oh, he said he might be able to see him. And I just have him going, oh, my God, what is that? Hello. I like that kid calls me Tom. So here's the deal. I'm an entity. And I went, no, I think that ruined everything for me, because then you can walk away from this with the idea that there are possibly different scenarios that all could be true, one of which is the kid's crazy and he made it up. You know what I'm saying? Or it's real, or it is an entity of some sort. All of those things could be left open ended for a, I think, more suspenseful, more scary, less definitive idea of what's going on in this story. [00:38:29] Speaker B: I will say, contrary to that, although I don't deny anything you said, the twist of the kid, like, I don't need you anymore. I can do this on my own. I didn't see that coming. And that elevated it for me. [00:38:40] Speaker C: It saved this episode for me. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Right? [00:38:43] Speaker C: Because I was out at the demon lecture, for all the reason, with the sword. I did not. I want to hit the writer with the sword. They don't have gold, right. I don't need to reiterate everything Tim said, but I felt similar to that. And by 1982, that had been a trope for a long time. And now listening to it, it's been a cliche for almost 50 years. But also, compared to the rest of the script, which I thought was much stronger for the most part, it had a couple of little things that bugged me, but it seemed tacked on and an info dump that was completely unnecessary. And if you're going to go that route, I would have dropped bits of information throughout the script. And then that final speech could have been a lot. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Sure, shorter. [00:39:33] Speaker B: And it didn't matter that he's not technically the devil. [00:39:37] Speaker A: None of it didn't matter, because all that matters is this kid is killing people and things, and that's scary. And I like the idea that we don't really find out why, if he's being controlled or not. [00:39:50] Speaker C: That's what sucked me in, is this story of the kid. It's this really compelling combination of zero hour from Ray Bradbury. And I don't know if you guys have ever heard any adaptation of or read the book or the weird BBC 80s television series of Chalky by John Wyndham. Of course, I haven't, just giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it also has a lot to make it up. [00:40:17] Speaker A: And we're like, oh, Chalky. [00:40:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I've totally seen that. [00:40:21] Speaker A: That's what I'm going to do. Someday. And you go, well, no, you haven't, because I just lied. [00:40:25] Speaker C: I guarantee there are listeners who are like, thank you. I said chalky, ten minutes into this. [00:40:31] Speaker A: Remember when Gumby and Pokey took him on. [00:40:36] Speaker C: And then he ate their souls? Here's the trope that really annoys me. And this is, again, like, Tim, this is probably me. But I find that crisis of faith trope in genre fiction really eye rolling and tiresome. Not because it's not inherently dramatic. It is, but it's almost always written by an atheist or agnostic, and so it is not portrayed with any sort of depth or reality. And I think a lot of his characterization of this father, who is some kind of clergyman, really gives the game away that he was taken to church once when he was a little kid, because a lot of the stuff this guy says is just not something a clergyman would say. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Devastating to him. The idea of, no, there is no. [00:41:26] Speaker A: God, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:41:27] Speaker C: He seems to struggle with where evil comes from. But he's been to seminary, so I'm sure he studied theodices. It's just very like, if he can't handle the problem of pain as a philosophical or theological argument, he should just throw his collar away. [00:41:46] Speaker A: Wow. [00:41:46] Speaker C: No, but I mean, if it's really on a theological level, like kindergarten stuff, made to give it some sort of. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Depth, but as opposed to confronting him with, oh, by the way, your son has done all these hoping that the personal is what, such a stronger assault. [00:42:05] Speaker C: On his face, that would be far more devastating, because that's like, what have I done? That's like a relational thing. But his father's never confronted with the actual evil transformation of his son. Father's already killed by the time the son shows his true colors, he's just. [00:42:21] Speaker B: Confronted with, your son did this because I made him do it, which is not as. It's still horrible, but it doesn't have that impact. [00:42:28] Speaker C: Yeah, but in that case, his son's a victim. He never lives to see his son choose evil, heinous evil. [00:42:35] Speaker A: Right. Can I throw something out there that is a possibility? It might be a little too much backwriting or giving too much credit to the writers of this, but there is a possibility that Tom, the evil Tom, is manifested and possibly not even real. It is just that kid. Is that inherently evil. Naturally. I know that we see him and he talks. [00:43:04] Speaker B: It was because the dad saw him. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Yes, I know. Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker C: And the other kid saw him briefly at the beginning. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Right. But what came first? It's two things. What came first was Tom that evil. And that's why he was recruited by this guy. So he's already that evil that's in there. [00:43:21] Speaker C: Right. He says there's certain people because he suggests that he needs Tom. Tom is the guy who suggests that he needs Gerald, and Gerald is the conduit for the removal of the souls, which is never really explained. And then he passes them on to syringe. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah, the turkey baster. [00:43:42] Speaker C: It's like a bone marrow transplant. [00:43:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Well, it suggests it's painful. Right. There is that creepy line when he's, like, having the half the one sided conversation, like this bizarro, scary Bob Newhart bit where he goes, oh, they have to scream. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, now he's on the phone in my head doing that bit. [00:44:14] Speaker C: Bob Newhart teaching a demon to. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:44:17] Speaker B: Tom on the couch. [00:44:19] Speaker A: There's a part of me that thinks. Not thinks. There's a possibility that the intent of this is that Tom isn't real and that somehow a physical manifestation is occurring because of how evil the kid is. [00:44:35] Speaker B: I could have gone alongside even the very top when the guy is waving. If there is some disconnect between, like, there was a guy waving, but that's not who he talked to. But ultimately, when the dad sees him, that's making an authorial, I think, decision of it's a real thing. [00:44:51] Speaker C: And the 15 minutes monologue from Thomas tells you that the writer's real intent is ventriloquism. [00:45:00] Speaker A: What if it was a puppet? [00:45:01] Speaker C: We need to believe what is in the script. [00:45:04] Speaker A: I think trying to make it better. [00:45:08] Speaker B: There's an exchange in there that really stuck out to me that it's enticing in all the right ways of, like, what should I call you? And it's like, Tom is the third try, but the first one is like, that's. I don't like that. And the second one. That sounds ridiculous. [00:45:22] Speaker A: Right? [00:45:22] Speaker B: What are these names? [00:45:24] Speaker A: I did a bunch of names in my head while this is going on. It went from Zika Laka Pukachuka, like, something weird to Betty. It was Susan, Captain Poopy pants. [00:45:37] Speaker B: All right, Tom. [00:45:39] Speaker C: Yeah. I assumed. I can't say that meant it was unpronounceable to him. Not like. No, it's one of the seven words you can't say on radio. [00:45:48] Speaker A: Could it be the Sesame street Alphabet song? Ab gaddafi, Jeffrey Lafa Nubitz? [00:45:55] Speaker C: You've been waiting eight years to do that. Congrats. [00:46:00] Speaker A: I got to turn that little sesame street gem of wisdom into something useful. I'm impressed. [00:46:08] Speaker C: I so enjoyed the way the first half of this distributed information. And I think, again, that is why the end bothered me so much. That great moment again, because it's one sided conversations. You don't get to hear all of it, so you only get bits and pieces. There's a moment when Gerald asks, well, what do you do with them? We don't know this has anything to do with souls yet. And he goes, save them. That's what my dad says. He does? [00:46:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:37] Speaker C: It's like, ooh, okay, now we know what we're dealing with, right? It's said so well, it's not explicit. And then he ruins it at the end. [00:46:46] Speaker B: And it's the ideal way that you deal with these sort of kids in peril. It's both kind of told in a sweet and endearing way, and the implications are so horrible. [00:46:55] Speaker C: Yes, he's being forced into these horrific acts. He is being exposed to this horror, but he still has to process them through a child's experience. And that's what's so chilling about it. There is one bit of transition that confused me. It was more sound than music, and particularly because earlier in the show, transitions had an in universe diegetic meaning. And that's that weird sort of synth underwater sound. Do you remember what I'm talking about? It's toward the very end. I think it's after they kill Mr. Johnson, who has a gun, who's out hunting for the murderer. It's just the weirdest transition sound. And I thought it was supposed to signify something like the transportation of souls or something, but no, you guys are staring at me blankly. Maybe a little blankly. [00:47:49] Speaker A: I kind of remember it, but I think I was just. Sometimes with these, you get to a point where like, please end. Let's go, let's go. I'm done taking notes. I kind of remember it. Let's say that it was the transportation of soul sound effect. [00:48:07] Speaker C: It's honestly what I thought for a moment. [00:48:09] Speaker A: But then you're right. See? Good job. Some good analogy. [00:48:13] Speaker D: Awesome. [00:48:13] Speaker C: I'm going to edit this all out. I'm going to come back and say it very definitively. That weird sound you all remember. [00:48:21] Speaker A: Here it is. [00:48:22] Speaker C: Soul sucking. That's what it was. [00:48:24] Speaker B: That's what we all thought. [00:48:25] Speaker C: Entire episode was soul sucking. [00:48:29] Speaker A: Soul sucking was the original name of Soul coughing. It's 05:00 a.m. In Los Angeles and you are watching Chalky. [00:48:45] Speaker C: You're going to regret laughing when we get all sorts of chalky emails. [00:48:51] Speaker B: It's got to be after field trip. I'm like, all right, we got to go to Los Angeles, and at 05:00 a.m. Start watching Chalky. [00:48:59] Speaker C: Should we vote yes? [00:49:01] Speaker A: I would love to. It was fine. I can't say it's a classic. I don't think it's historically of any significance other than I think it's good. I do. I think it's a good. But there was nothing unique about it for me to go, wow. Way to make me rethink anything scary, kid. Got it. It's good. [00:49:24] Speaker B: This is a good moment to just stop and take some real appreciation. Nightfall, as you just were saying, of all the technical achievements that went into this, that's easy to take for granted, but that nightfall as a series exists with all the lessons of all the shows that came before it. They are not reinventing radio. They are continuing it. And they were very boundary pushing. We sort of talked about the animal things and the child endangerment and all that, but it was their explicit goal to push boundaries to be challenging. And I think they did an excellent job of all of that in this episode. And as Josh was saying, that there are parts of this where the craft of the writing is excellent, and it just kind of tanks a little at the end. [00:50:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:19] Speaker B: So stands test time has some flaws. That's my vote. I also sometimes have trouble ending, like my act threes of sentences or paragraphs that I start. I'll come to a conclusion, and I feel like I didn't really end that. So I start again, and then I have to find another ending. [00:50:39] Speaker A: Tim. [00:50:40] Speaker B: Yeah? [00:50:40] Speaker A: Come to the basement. I want to show you something. Okay. [00:50:45] Speaker C: Yes. I think I will piggyback on what Tim said. There are some great production elements in here that I maybe didn't mention. They're small, but we often don't give Nightfall credit for these small, good decisions because they often distract us with big, bad decisions. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:51:00] Speaker C: But there's a scene when the parents are discussing what's been going on and how they're going to talk to Gerald about it. It's about midway through, so we know how bad things are, and we know stuff that they don't know, and they just have the living room clock in the background just ticking. And I always found that a just sort of eerie sound. And that's back in the day, in the 80s, everybody's grandma had that incredibly loud clock on the wall. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Someday I will bore you with my horror stories of my grandmother's clock on the wall. But, yes, it's terrible. It means nothing is happening and time is passing, and you're bored or it's ominous as hell. [00:51:44] Speaker C: And because we know things that they don't know yet, you know, like time is running out, they need to figure this out and they need to talk to him. So it's just a nice subtle background touch. I also liked the creepy repetition of Gerald saying, being so philosophical about all the deaths every time he's gently told about his dog and his friend. And the repeating line of everybody has to die just like in the Bible. So it's creepy. It's also amused me because I think it's one of the best paraphrases of ecclesiastes I've ever heard. Entire bug right there. Everybody has to die just in the Bible. Yeah. So there's little beautiful moments. But I'm not going to lie, Tim. There's some glaring issues with it, I think, mainly in that big info dump at the end. You never want to end on a big dump. [00:52:39] Speaker B: Look, I have put years of my life into this campaign, and when you're going to fight the final boss, he's going to get his speech. [00:52:46] Speaker C: All right, that's fine. I'll be in the bathroom taking a big info dump. Let me know when you're done. [00:52:53] Speaker A: That sounds so relieving. Tim, tell him stuff. [00:52:58] Speaker C: Put grandma's clock on the bathroom. Please go. I don't like this transition. [00:53:04] Speaker A: Try again. Hey, Tim. [00:53:05] Speaker B: Yeah? [00:53:06] Speaker A: Tell him stuff. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Please go visit ghoulishdelights.com, home of this. [00:53:11] Speaker C: Podcast time bomb than grandma's clock. [00:53:15] Speaker B: You'll find other episodes there. You can vote. Let us know what you think. You can leave us comments was Tim trolling us, or was Tim handing us a gem of nightfall to make us stop and appreciate the things we don't often appreciate? [00:53:27] Speaker C: I think he's already designed a gerald t shirt and he was like, well, nuts. I need to send him this episode to listen to. [00:53:36] Speaker B: You can also link to our social media pages. You can go visit our Patreon page. [00:53:42] Speaker C: Yes, go to patreon.com. Slash them. Support this podcast. Clearly, we need it. Yeah, become like Tim. Not Tim. No, no, not at all. Who can't finish his voting? Become like Patron, Tim. Become a patron of the mysterious old radio listening society. And please, there are so many great perks. Believe us, there are. I think we just recently released our Halloween Patreon special, so you guys get a little taste of some of the fun stuff we do. You can also join us online and hang out with us, interact with other patrons and with us. Talk about old time radio shows, read books with me. How exciting is that? Read along at five a Osha yeah, so yeah, go to patreon.com themorals darn it. [00:54:33] Speaker A: Hey, the mysterious old radio listening Society isn't just a podcast. It's also a live theater company that performs audio drama live on stage, recreations of classic old time radio shows, plus a lot of our own original work. We perform monthly, and you can find out where we are every month and what we're performing this month and get tickets to that performance by going to ghoulishdelights.com. And if you can't make the show and you are a Patreon, well, you're in luck because we film them and those get posted on Patreon, so you get to see them for free anyway. But you should still come if you can because we'd like to hang out with you. Yeah. What's coming up next? [00:55:15] Speaker C: Next, we'll be listening to an episode of my choosing the wages of sin from suspense. Until then, it.