Episode 367: Men Call Me Mad

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society Podcast welcome to the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:00:37] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:38] Speaker B: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:43] Speaker C: Today we return to a notorious radio series that never fails to surprise, befuddle, delight and annoy in unequal measure. Dark Fantasy. The program ran from November 14, 1941 through June 19, 1942. It was an in house production of WKY in Oklahoma City, but broadcast nationally by NBC. Most of the actors heard on the show were from the Oklahoma City area, including veteran radio actor Ben Morris and local stage actor Eleanor Naylor Coughran. WKY's traffic manager Daryl McAllister was brought in to handle sound effects. [00:01:24] Speaker A: According to an article in the Capital times published on April 19, 1942, writer director Scott Bishop conceived the series while sitting in a Chinese tea room sipping a spice tea of his own invention. Bishop elaborated on the appeal of his show and the allure of radio horror in general. Although listeners enjoy a good whodunit yarn where all the facts have sound reasons for existing, I think there is more fascination in the dark fantasy type of tale where the horror comes from things unusual or even supernatural. In this case, it is not the horror itself that causes listeners hair to rise, it's the unseen, unaccountable cause of the terror. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Bishop's stories are certainly unusual, and it's not just the terror that is unaccountable. Often his scripts have an elusive, dreamlike quality where real world logic gives way to a free association. His actors add to this effect with unnaturally muted performances, often delivering their lines in hushed tones as if they were deliberately attempting to lull a listener to sleep. [00:02:26] Speaker C: The question the podcast returns to again and again is whether or not this effect is deliberate on Bishop's part or the accidental byproduct of his shortcomings as a writer director. I chose today's episode in the hope it might help us settle this debate once and for all. I invite you to get comfortable, dim the lights, drift into that liminal state between wakefulness and sleep, and listen to Men Call Me Mad From Dark Fantasy First Broadcast December 19, 1941 it's late. [00:03:00] Speaker A: At night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker, listen to the music, and listen to the voices. [00:03:19] Speaker D: Dark Fantasy Men call me man. Dr. West, you please close the door. [00:03:44] Speaker E: Certainly, Dr. Terhune. [00:03:46] Speaker D: Now, gentlemen, I have summoned you, my two trusted and loyal friends, to divulge a secret that even I myself can hardly comprehend. [00:03:53] Speaker F: You made a new discovery, Charles. [00:03:56] Speaker D: Discovery? Yes. I have found another world. A what? [00:04:02] Speaker E: Another world, you say? [00:04:05] Speaker D: Exactly. Will you please snap off the lights, Doctor? That switch there. [00:04:09] Speaker F: Yes, certainly. [00:04:11] Speaker D: Now, by means of this special projection machine, I'm going to show you something which will astound you beyond words. I must ask you to remain perfectly still throughout this demonstration. As the picture I'm about to show you progresses, I will explain in detail just what I have done. First of all, to start the machine, now, observe this picture I've taken on color film. A picture of the new moon. Now, you will notice that the camera has picked up a single ray of the moon. It's focused upon a wall where on dances a single tiny moon beam. The camera approaches the moonbeam closer, closer still closer. And then the special film in my camera reaches the lens. The scene changes. Dr. Smith. Gentlemen, gentlemen, please. Now, you see here my other world. My world within a moonbeam taken upon special color film of my own invention. Film that is constructed to pick up objects within the very atoms. Objects smaller, that is, than atoms themselves. Notice, please, the coloring of this other world within a moonbeam. See the hills, the plains with their red grass, their red leaf trees. Notice that tiny stream at the left, a vivid orange. Notice the yellow of the tree trunks, the orange colored sky and the deep blue sun. Amazing. The film ends quickly now. But first a rare sight is in store for you. Now, watch closely. There. [00:05:54] Speaker E: A man. But what sort of creature is that he's riding? [00:05:59] Speaker D: I don't know. You will notice the animal approaches the small stream, wades quickly through it and vanishes from the camera sight. And as he vanishes into the distance, the film ends. [00:06:13] Speaker F: Amazing. [00:06:14] Speaker E: Astounding. Unbelievable. [00:06:17] Speaker D: Are the lights. If you please, Doctor. [00:06:18] Speaker F: Oh, yes, of course. [00:06:19] Speaker E: Look here, Tyhoon. Is this a camera trick? [00:06:23] Speaker D: Absolutely not. I have shown you what actually exists within certain, or possibly all, moonbeams. [00:06:30] Speaker F: What's your theory, Doctor? [00:06:31] Speaker D: That all creation consists of worlds within worlds. Who can say that our world is not contained within some still larger one, and that within another, and that still within another, and so on. [00:06:43] Speaker F: The thought suddenly becomes overwhelming. [00:06:46] Speaker D: Yes, doesn't it? To think that all around us, within even such tiny substances as the atoms themselves under our feet, overhead on all sides, are worlds of which we are unaware. Yes. [00:07:04] Speaker E: If only there were some way to visit those other worlds. [00:07:08] Speaker D: Ah, Dr. West, that is the point. We can. [00:07:13] Speaker E: Good heavens, man. [00:07:14] Speaker D: You mean. Yes. [00:07:15] Speaker F: Just what do you mean, gentlemen? [00:07:20] Speaker D: I plan to enter that world in the moonbeam. [00:07:23] Speaker E: Impossible. [00:07:24] Speaker F: I don't like to say so, Charles, but aren't you overlooking the laws of dimension, the general medium, laws of nature that are so obvious? [00:07:33] Speaker E: Not only that, Terhune, but aren't you appearing a little ridiculous on the face of things? [00:07:39] Speaker D: I do not expect you to be convinced until you have seen. [00:07:42] Speaker F: We in our profession are not inclined to take such things as we are speaking of for granted. [00:07:47] Speaker D: Then let's not waste words, my friends. I propose to convince you beyond all possible doubt. [00:07:53] Speaker E: Well, I have no objection to being convinced. [00:07:57] Speaker F: Nor I. Though I really believe Terhune has let his imagination win the upper hand. [00:08:02] Speaker D: I wish. We shall see. Now, here, gentlemen, on this table, you see what looks like an Eskimo igloo. Made of crystal clear glass with an opening at one side at the base. Much like an entrance to an igloo or tent. [00:08:14] Speaker F: Yes, it's about 10 inches high and about 8 inches in diameter. [00:08:20] Speaker D: Now, when we extinguish the lights here in this room and when that curtain is drawn from the window over there, the moonbeam in question will be centered directly through that little glass case. [00:08:30] Speaker E: You want us to assist you? [00:08:31] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:08:32] Speaker F: But what do you intend to do? [00:08:33] Speaker D: Well, I have here a number of small capsules filled with a potion whose base consists mostly of radium. [00:08:38] Speaker E: What is this preparation? [00:08:41] Speaker D: A substance which will cause animal matter to decrease itself many millions of times. [00:08:46] Speaker F: In other words, you think it'll make you become smaller? [00:08:50] Speaker D: Precisely. [00:08:50] Speaker E: But small enough to enter the realm of a single atom? [00:08:56] Speaker D: I hope so. [00:08:57] Speaker F: Well, have you. Have you tried this concoction? [00:08:59] Speaker D: Only on animals. First on rabbits and rats. And just yesterday I sent a dog into the world of atoms. [00:09:06] Speaker E: But granting such a feat is possible, don't you think your clothes would also shrink with you? [00:09:12] Speaker D: I have found that any object in contact with the animal matter at the time the capsule is consumed will be caused to shrink in proportion with the animal matter itself. I found that out yesterday when I failed to remove the dog's color. [00:09:24] Speaker F: But suppose you consume too great a quantity of the potion? [00:09:27] Speaker D: I have an equalizer, another mixture which will counteract the first capsule. By taking particular amounts of it, I can stop the reaction of the capsule. And then, having stopped it, by taking another dose of the stabilizer or equalizer, I can increase my size again. [00:09:42] Speaker E: This is all very extraordinary. [00:09:45] Speaker D: I plan to be gone quite some time. I'm asking you two to Watch over this little glass case for a four day period. [00:09:52] Speaker E: You can count on me. [00:09:53] Speaker F: Count on me. [00:09:54] Speaker D: Good. Now I shall take a capsule. I'll begin to grow almost immediately. I've reached about two feet in height. I want you, Dr. Smith, to bend down to the floor and pick me up and place me on this table here beside this little glass case, putting me directly in front of the opening or door of the case. Is that clear? [00:10:16] Speaker F: Quite. Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker D: Good. Gentlemen, my hand. Good luck, Charles Smith. [00:10:23] Speaker F: We'll follow your instructions carefully, Doctor. [00:10:26] Speaker D: Good. I knew I could count on you two. Now, the capsule. My head is whirring. My ears are ringing. Eyes are growing dim. I have a sensation of emptiness in the pit of my stomach. You notice any change in my appearance? Good heavens. [00:11:01] Speaker E: He's lost a foot in height. [00:11:04] Speaker F: Why, you're growing smaller, Terhune. You are man. You're actually growing smaller. [00:11:09] Speaker E: He's two feet smaller now. [00:11:12] Speaker D: I. I hope I regain my eyesight before I become too small. Are my clues diminishing too? [00:11:19] Speaker F: Yes, yes. Quiet. [00:11:21] Speaker D: I. I cannot describe my sensations. I feel a strange weakness. My senses seem to be deserting me. I find it rather difficult to talk. [00:11:36] Speaker F: Look, I. He's just about 2ft high. [00:11:39] Speaker E: Now, Wes, do as he told you. [00:11:41] Speaker D: Doctor. [00:11:41] Speaker E: Pick him up. Now place him on the table. [00:11:43] Speaker D: Yes, yes. [00:11:44] Speaker F: Just so. [00:11:44] Speaker E: Careful now. There. [00:11:48] Speaker D: Here. [00:11:49] Speaker E: Put him closer to that door so he'll have no trouble finding it. Watch your arm, Doctor. Don't cut off the moonbeam. [00:11:56] Speaker D: There. That's good. [00:11:58] Speaker F: See, he's only about 6 inches high. Now. [00:12:00] Speaker E: There he goes into the glass case. See, the moonbeam is completely covering him. He is so tiny now you can hardly see him. The size of a small ant. [00:12:15] Speaker F: He's fading into the light of the beam now. I wonder what he'll discover in there. I wonder what he'll discover. [00:12:33] Speaker D: At last I'm here in another world. Such a strange place. Similar to the place I came from. Yet different trees, yet with leaves of brilliant scarlet and yellow bark. The grass also scarlet. Orange colored sky overhead, a sun of dazzling blue. And the water in the little stream over there. Not blue, but orange. Yes, the colors all different. Everything else correspondingly the same. [00:13:15] Speaker G: Why do you speak so strangely? [00:13:18] Speaker D: I beg your pardon. I thought I was alone. [00:13:21] Speaker G: You must be a foreigner. Otherwise you'd know you're in the King's gardens and they are quite private. [00:13:27] Speaker D: I'm so sorry. Yes, I am a foreigner. If you'll forgive me, I'll leave at once. [00:13:32] Speaker G: Oh, no, please. It is our custom to treat foreigners in a Friendly manner. And so I bid you welcome. I am the Princess Elena. [00:13:42] Speaker D: A princess? [00:13:44] Speaker G: Yes, daughter of King Londelier. Surely you've heard of me. [00:13:50] Speaker D: No, Princess, I'm not. [00:13:51] Speaker G: But surely. My father rules the world with kindness and justice. And everyone knows him for his goodness. [00:13:59] Speaker D: Princess, will it frighten you if I tell you something? Something most strange? [00:14:07] Speaker G: I think not, sir. For you yourself are most strange. Your clothing, the colors not in the least ordinary. And your features are so different. [00:14:20] Speaker D: Princess Elena, my name is Charles Terhune. I'm a citizen of the United States of America. [00:14:28] Speaker G: America? I know the world quite well, but never have I heard of America. [00:14:35] Speaker D: That is why I fear I might frighten you, Your Highness. You see, America is not in this world. It is in another. [00:14:47] Speaker G: You are from another world? [00:14:49] Speaker D: Exactly. You see, I am a scientist in my own universe. I discovered your world here, so I found a way to come to visit you. You don't seem at all surprised. [00:15:02] Speaker G: No. Why should I be surprised? We've expected you for a long time. [00:15:08] Speaker D: Me? [00:15:09] Speaker G: Well, not you exactly, but someone. [00:15:13] Speaker D: But what do you mean? [00:15:15] Speaker G: Our scientists have known for many years that other worlds besides ours exist. But they've never been able to discover a method of entering one of them. We've been hoping someone from beyond would find a way here. [00:15:29] Speaker D: Amazing. [00:15:31] Speaker G: That is why I asked if you were a foreigner. Since my father rules the entire world. Naturally, a foreigner could only be from another world. [00:15:41] Speaker D: This absolutely astounds me. Princess, I must speak to your scientists. This is so wonderful. The people of our world seem much alike, save in a few minor respects. We look alike, talk alike. [00:15:52] Speaker G: We've often wondered how much we would be like the people from beyond. [00:15:55] Speaker D: Take me to your scientist, Princess. I must see them. [00:15:58] Speaker G: I will gladly take you to them, but first I must warn you, you're in great danger. [00:16:06] Speaker D: Danger? [00:16:07] Speaker G: Our world is doomed. We're falling victims to a strange malady which none of our doctors or learned men can overcome. It is slaying our people by the thousands. [00:16:19] Speaker D: A plague? [00:16:20] Speaker G: Yes, a mysterious disease. One we've never encountered before in all history. If you would save yourself, use whatever method you have and return to your own world before it's too late. [00:16:33] Speaker D: One moment, Princess. Will you take me to your father? I don't know why I say this, but perhaps I can help. [00:16:40] Speaker G: Oh, no, no. Save yourself, I beg of you. Do not remain here to perish. [00:16:46] Speaker D: Please, Princess. At least allow me to try to help. [00:16:49] Speaker G: You're either very brave or very foolish. [00:16:51] Speaker D: Brave or foolish, take me to your father. [00:16:53] Speaker G: Very well. But he will Only warn you as I have done. [00:17:10] Speaker D: And that, your Majesty, is how I found your world and the way to enter it. [00:17:14] Speaker H: It's interesting. At one time, I would have said amazing. But with our discoveries of other worlds around us, it's now only interesting. [00:17:23] Speaker G: I've warned Dr. Tejun to return to his own universe before he falls victim to the plague. [00:17:28] Speaker H: Yes, Mohsan, you must. [00:17:29] Speaker D: But I would like to help. I'm a doctor. Where I came from, perhaps I could do something. [00:17:33] Speaker H: I fear it is useless. Almost brilliant. Physicians are powerless to even make a diagnosis, much less a cure. [00:17:41] Speaker D: But I have a knowledge from another world, you, Majesty. [00:17:44] Speaker G: That's true, father. He found a way of reaching us, while we here have been unable to reach the other places beyond. [00:17:51] Speaker H: Yes, yes, daughter, you reason wisely. [00:17:53] Speaker D: Please, your majesty, permit me to see some of the victims. I can't return home until I've at least made an attempt to help you. [00:18:00] Speaker E: Very well. [00:18:01] Speaker H: As you wish. Come with me. My son lies dying in a room above. I will permit you to examine him. [00:18:21] Speaker E: Well. [00:18:22] Speaker H: Dr. Terhune. [00:18:23] Speaker D: Your Majesty. [00:18:24] Speaker G: Dr. Terhune. [00:18:25] Speaker D: Heavens, man. This is typhoid. [00:18:26] Speaker H: Typhoid? [00:18:27] Speaker G: But what is typhoid? [00:18:28] Speaker D: We have it on our earth. [00:18:30] Speaker H: Tell us. Do you know the cure? [00:18:31] Speaker D: Yes, your majesty, I do. Take me to your nearest medical laboratory. We must prepare a serum, huge quantities of it. And we must send it to all parts of the world immediately if we're to save your people. [00:18:50] Speaker H: Daughter, these reports from all parts of the universe. The deaths grow fewer and fewer each day. [00:18:58] Speaker G: It's a miracle, father. And Charles Terhune has saved us all. There's been no typhoid death now for three days. [00:19:09] Speaker D: I know our fight has been won. [00:19:13] Speaker G: The people are clamoring for you, Dokitor. You. They almost consider you a God. [00:19:18] Speaker D: I am no God, Princess. Merely a man with a little knowledge. [00:19:23] Speaker G: But you came to us like a miracle man, in time to work the greatest wonder of all history. [00:19:29] Speaker D: I'm happy that my journey here has been for a purpose. [00:19:32] Speaker G: Anything you ever wish in the world will be yours. [00:19:35] Speaker D: I know, Elena. There is so little I want, yet so much. [00:19:43] Speaker G: Will you remain here with us forever? [00:19:46] Speaker D: I. I cannot, Princess. [00:19:49] Speaker G: You called me Elena a moment ago. [00:19:51] Speaker D: I cannot, Elena. I must return to tell my people what I've discovered. [00:19:55] Speaker G: Oh, but if you go now. [00:19:57] Speaker D: Yes, Elena. [00:19:58] Speaker G: Oh, why must we always be governed by rules of propriety? [00:20:02] Speaker D: Elena, if. If you're thinking what I hope you are? [00:20:06] Speaker G: Charles. [00:20:07] Speaker D: Elena, my darling. Is it wrong to say I love you, child? [00:20:13] Speaker G: Is it wrong for stars to shine or for flowers to bloom. [00:20:18] Speaker D: Oh, my darling princess child. I love you, Elena. [00:20:23] Speaker G: And I love you. Please don't leave me, my darling. [00:20:29] Speaker D: Just for a little while. I will return to you, Elena. I promise. [00:20:35] Speaker G: Then I will wait for you, beloved. And when you return, nothing in this world or any other will ever take us apart. [00:20:55] Speaker E: It's past his time. Almost four days. [00:20:58] Speaker F: Took a moment there in the moon, Beansy. [00:21:01] Speaker E: No, I. Yes. [00:21:04] Speaker F: Look. [00:21:05] Speaker E: He is coming back. See there? He's out of the glass case on the tabletop. [00:21:10] Speaker F: He's growing rapidly. West, you better place him down on the floor. [00:21:14] Speaker D: Look. [00:21:14] Speaker E: Larger and larger. [00:21:16] Speaker F: This is perfectly astounding man. I wonder what his adventures have been. [00:21:21] Speaker E: Dr. Terhune, can you hear me? Dr. Terhune? [00:21:24] Speaker F: He's almost four feet tall now. [00:21:26] Speaker E: Can you hear me, Doctor? Water. [00:21:29] Speaker D: Some water, please. Water. Wetly, Wes. [00:21:32] Speaker F: Quickly, over there in that goblet. [00:21:33] Speaker E: Yes, just one moment. Here we are. [00:21:37] Speaker F: He's all right now. Full size again. Here, Trion, drink this. [00:21:43] Speaker D: Yes, thanks. That's better. [00:21:50] Speaker E: Are you all right, Terhun? [00:21:51] Speaker D: Yes, quite all right, thank you. Gentlemen, I have had the strangest experience imaginable. I have visited a world that's amazing and wonderful. [00:22:03] Speaker F: Tell us about it. [00:22:04] Speaker D: Yes, I will. When I became small enough to enter the moonbeam, I found myself in the exact spot you two saw in the picture I displayed for you. I did not know which way to go, naturally. But after a moment, I heard someone speak to me. That, my friends, is precisely what happened to me. [00:22:25] Speaker E: And you say those people knew all about the existence of other worlds but were not familiar with such a disease as typhoid? [00:22:33] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:22:33] Speaker F: You must have been somewhat of a hero to you. [00:22:36] Speaker D: Yes, somewhat. [00:22:37] Speaker E: You know, if I hadn't seen this demonstration with my own eyes, I'd never have believed it. [00:22:41] Speaker D: Well, Dr. West, even though I was the one who experienced it, I'm still wondering if it actually happened. [00:22:48] Speaker F: Then it happened all right. Yes, we saw you grow small right before our eyes. So small you became almost invisible and disappeared in the moonbeam. [00:22:57] Speaker D: I trust you two will confirm any statements I might make to the public about all this? [00:23:01] Speaker F: No, absolutely. [00:23:02] Speaker E: Certainly tell you. [00:23:03] Speaker D: By the way, was my sister here during my absence? [00:23:06] Speaker E: Why, yes, she was. She acted very strangely, too, but we told her nothing. [00:23:12] Speaker D: Well, gentlemen, perhaps I should have told you this before. You see, my sister and I jointly own several hundred acres of valuable oil land in the south. She's a greedy woman. She's tried for years to obtain full possession of the property. She's tried in many ways, but her latest method is by charging that I'm insane. [00:23:32] Speaker F: Oh, that's ridiculous. [00:23:34] Speaker D: Yes, exactly. But she's preferred the charges. Tomorrow at 9, I must appear before a group of alienists who will decide whether or not I'm mentally unbalanced. That is why I had to make my experiment before tomorrow. [00:24:07] Speaker I: Dr. Terhune, you've been carefully examined by this impartial and experienced board of alienists. At the request of your sister. Yeah. It's our decision that you must submit yourself to a series of treatments at whatever sanitarium your sister might choose. [00:24:24] Speaker D: No. No. [00:24:25] Speaker F: Stop. [00:24:26] Speaker D: This has all been so irregular, so unfair. You think I'm mad. The story I've told you is true. I can prove everything I've said. [00:24:34] Speaker I: Please, Dr. Terhune. [00:24:35] Speaker D: My two friends, Dr. West and Dr. Smith. Ask them why haven't you let them testify for me? They saw it. They'll tell you everything I've said is true. [00:24:44] Speaker I: One moment. Yes? Oh, yes. He's here with me now. I see. [00:25:00] Speaker F: Yes. [00:25:01] Speaker I: All right, I'll tell him. I'm sorry, Dr. Terhune. I'm afraid I have bad news for you. Drs. West and Smith were to have testified on your behalf. But I've just received word that they were both killed a few moments ago in an automobile accident. [00:25:30] Speaker D: And that was the verdict. Now men call me mad. So they've locked me here in the cell till the time they can remove me to a sanitarium. Any moment now they'll come for me, Whisk me off through the night. My discovery will never be proved. People will laugh for a while, speak of the mad doctor to heal and then they will forget. And for me, no escape. [00:26:15] Speaker G: Charles. Charles, My darling Elena. [00:26:21] Speaker E: No escape. No escape. [00:26:25] Speaker D: Oh, what a stupid fool I am. The moonbeam. Of course. The moonbeam. Dark Fantasy. [00:27:06] Speaker J: Men Call Me mad. An original tale of dark fantasy by Scott Bishop. Ben Morris was heard as Dr. Charles Terhune. Eleanor Naylor Corin was Princess Elena. Fred Wayne was King Londolier. Murillo Schofield was Dr. West. Muir Height was Dr. Smith. And Daryl McAllister was the specialist. Next Friday night at the same time, the National Broadcasting Company will present another tale of dark fantasy. The House of Bread. A strange and compelling drama of Christmas 1941 and that first Christmas nearly 2,000 years ago, told to you by Scott Bishop. Dark fantasy originates in the studios of station WKY in Oklahoma City. This is the National Broadcasting Company. [00:27:49] Speaker A: That was Men Call Me Mad from Dark Fantasy here on the mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric. [00:27:57] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:27:57] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Dark fantasy. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Yeah, baby, here we go. This is 30 minutes of Joshua defending Scott Bishop. I can smell it. Here it comes. Right? It was a really good introduction, though, because I think you're right. If this is on purpose, is it good? Is it genius? Or is it. What in the hell? Are you just that bad a writer? [00:28:24] Speaker C: Or is it all of those things? [00:28:26] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Well, one of the reasons I'm reversed to idiot savant of, like, genius idiot. He's brilliant, but he does stupid things. [00:28:37] Speaker A: This was the best version of Horton Hears a who that I've ever had listened to, though. [00:28:44] Speaker C: Well, one of the reasons I chose this, and I want to reveal this first, one of my goals for 2025 is to just cross off all of my episodes from old. Hmm. Maybe I should bring this to the podcast lists and so I can start completely fresh by about. About mid-2025. But this has been on my list for a long time as one of my favorite dark fantasies, for reasons we'll obviously get into. But the main reason is often in our other discussions of dark fantasy we have talked about, as we talked about in the intro, this dreamlike quality. It's hard to come up with a better word than dreamlike. The logic follows a dream. It has this very sedate, quiet quality. I listened to this for about six months straight to put myself to sleep every night because I found it just magical the way these guys talked about moonbeams. We're serious scientists talking about moonbeams, and they never reach a much higher range than that. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:02] Speaker C: This is unlike. Although it shares some commonalities, as a whole, it is unlike a lot of the dark fantasies we have discussed, in that it doesn't have that opening hook that we often talk about that is intriguing in some way. And then it does a switch. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:20] Speaker C: It is a waking dream for its entirety. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Sure. [00:30:25] Speaker C: It's about four different stories. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Yes. There's a lot of different levels of story. [00:30:32] Speaker C: There's a lot that's ridiculous about this and unintentionally hilarious. And I'm not actually coming in here defending this as the Citizen Kane of Old Time Radio. It might be the Citizen Kane of dark fantasy, but it's like the Citizen Kane of movies. I am captured by its coherent incoherency. And one of the things we always criticize about dark fantasy is left turns. [00:31:02] Speaker A: And never coming back to retrieve where he started. [00:31:05] Speaker C: And this is just a series of left turns. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:11] Speaker C: And I have defended dark fantasy before, and this one stands out as it Is never boring. Every line of dialogue is what this is. Nothing I expected to happen in this episode from beat to beat. And so could this happen by accident? Is there a God or a blind watchmaker? [00:31:40] Speaker A: Here's a question I have about Scott Bishop that I've noticed. There is a commonality in all of his work. Everything ends up with some kind of royalty. Kings, queens, princes, princesses. Some kind of fairytale land of traditional fairy tale, opera singers, gorillas kind of setting. You know, like space golf. Anyway, I find that interesting from the standpoint of trying to analyze Scott Bishop. I get the feeling that Scott Bishop, born later, would have really loved D and D. Totally. [00:32:17] Speaker C: Like, he would have been an amazing dungeon master. I think we can all agree, like, it would be exciting to play his role playing games. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Yep. [00:32:26] Speaker B: This, to me, was the perfect recreation of a little kid telling a story. [00:32:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:32] Speaker B: Which kids don't tell good stories. [00:32:35] Speaker A: No. [00:32:36] Speaker B: But it's so entertaining to listen to, which is not to say, like, so this is a badly told story. This is an amazing recreation of that little intuitive dreaming, as was bin been saying. And this thing's shiny. Let's go to this thing. Which is a compliment to it because I think that was deliberate. I don't think he's just like, ah, I'm trying to tell a story that makes sense. And it's the whole thing. I just forgot to introduce the sister at the beginning. Oh, yeah, I got a sister. Oh, that's right. [00:33:12] Speaker C: I mean, he, the protagonist literally says. He either says, I forgot to tell you or I probably should have told you. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Because she's trying to prove me crazy. And this ain't gonna help. [00:33:28] Speaker B: But I think it really successfully captured that quality of a child telling a story of, I want it to be about pirates now, and now I want it to be about knights. [00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:39] Speaker C: And not to get too deep on this pretty ridiculous episode of Old Time Radio, but the reason kids tell that story is because they have not learned this outside notion of what is the western form of storytelling, what our expectations are. And so I think it does go back to dreams and imagination unfettered. [00:34:04] Speaker B: That's the challenge then for Bishop, which he sometimes succeeds at and often fails at, is, can you take that experience and make that a thing that can compel and entertain even without the standard structures? And I feel like this one did. [00:34:20] Speaker C: And I might be approaching this in a slightly more somber way. I chose this episode a couple days before David lynch died. And I am, like many members of my generation, I was incredibly affected by his work. I'M feeling that artist grief. And I thought it was a fitting episode to discuss because lynch is also someone who had tapped into that subconscious dream state and could convey things that were not necessarily the connection. [00:34:56] Speaker B: But you feel it. [00:34:57] Speaker C: You feel it. It feels psychologically coherent, even though it's narrat. Relatively incoherent. Now, I am not comparing Scott Bishop directly to David Lynch. [00:35:07] Speaker B: I'm totally doing that. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:35:09] Speaker C: But I've drawn those connections in previous podcasts that occasionally Scott Bishop feels Lynchian to me, which has become a term like Kafkaesque became a term to describe this elusive quality of elusiveness that someone is able to realize. And this episode seems like the most coherent version of it. Just like uncompromising in the way David lynch was uncompromising in his kind of like, I'm gonna do this. And this is the most this of the Scott Bishop episodes I have heard. [00:35:48] Speaker B: And I also say by the end, when you get to the point of the people who would defend you all died and you're gonna escape by shrinking down. Sorry. Parenthetically, also a literary nod to diamond lens. [00:36:02] Speaker C: Ah, yes. [00:36:03] Speaker B: And many other. [00:36:04] Speaker C: It also reminded me of that period when the atom went. [00:36:09] Speaker B: Oh, Sword of the Atom. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Sword of the atom. [00:36:12] Speaker F: Oh, we're losing listeners. [00:36:16] Speaker A: I'll be over here if you need me. [00:36:17] Speaker C: Ant man. [00:36:18] Speaker B: Going down to the microcosm existential thing. [00:36:20] Speaker C: Of the Incredible Shrinking Man. [00:36:22] Speaker B: This is like Ulysses of dark fantasy. [00:36:25] Speaker C: The Ulysses of shrinking Man. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Sorry. When you get to the end and the people who can defend you. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Inch High Private Eye. All right, keep going. [00:36:37] Speaker B: The people who can defend you and say, you're saying are dead. Everyone else thinks you're crazy. So to escape, you're going to shrink down and go to see your princess in the moonbeam. Maybe this story was about a crazy guy who had no friends and was just, like, in his lab looking at moonbeams. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Yeah, like none of this was real. [00:36:57] Speaker B: That, you know, is always an impulse at the end of a story of like, of fantastical. And there's insanity implied. Like, maybe he was just crazy. [00:37:05] Speaker A: But that. And when Suzanne Pleshette said, yeah, come. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Back to bed, that's kind of another reference here of, like, princess. Like, hey, come back to the moonbeam. [00:37:18] Speaker C: Get on the moonbeam. She does not sound like that. That's terrible. [00:37:24] Speaker A: That's a dead on Suzanne Flechette. [00:37:27] Speaker C: She sounds like Crusty the Clown. But what if Bob Newhart rolled over and it was crusty the Clown? [00:37:38] Speaker D: Dr. Bob Newhart. [00:37:39] Speaker C: Oh, this is death. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Oh, my God. See, all of this is better than what I just listened to. [00:37:49] Speaker C: And on a completely different level. It's absurd beyond belief and it's hilarious and ridiculous. So I'm totally with any eye rolling over this, but I think it invites a different interpretation more than some of the other dark fantasy episodes I have heard. [00:38:10] Speaker B: When he goes down and meets the princess, I'm kind of like, yeah, yeah. And then they had a plague and I was a scientist so I cured them. And at that point I was so disarmed, like, did you? Did you little guy? [00:38:19] Speaker C: Oh yeah. It's like inner space typhoid. [00:38:24] Speaker B: She just saved the whole civilization. [00:38:26] Speaker C: Good for you. But it does begin to take on that fantasy element, as Tim was saying of a reading of like he's just been in a lunatic asylum all along. And also by 1942, this is another more evidence if you're going to just be a total ridiculous reader response where you're going to just read everything into it and co create this episode with Scott Bishop and build meaning out of what is there and help him out. But they knew radium would kill you, right? Like this potion is radium based by 1942. [00:38:56] Speaker A: Was radium supposed to be bad for you by the 20s, 30s? But no, I think you're right. [00:39:02] Speaker C: That seems like another clue of like, is this just a guy dreaming? Or maybe Scott Bishop paid no attention to. [00:39:09] Speaker A: He didn't read a paper. [00:39:11] Speaker C: Maybe he doesn't know much about science. Based on this episode. I'm just gonna go out on a limb. [00:39:18] Speaker B: They're doing units of moonbeams. Like, well, let's just get the one moonbe. Yeah, just the one with this special. [00:39:24] Speaker C: Film I created will allow us to look at. Put that in moon beams within moon beams. [00:39:30] Speaker A: Come on in here. Okay, so you two guys. [00:39:33] Speaker C: Eric's performing an intervention. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker C: He's like, I am really concerned about YouTube. [00:39:37] Speaker A: You two guys. You two scientists, guys. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, look, the moonbeam. And look at this special thing I made. And I can, I can get. We can see all sorts of different. There's multiple universes and wow. Okay. Crazy. So I can get there. You can, yeah. So I take this shrinking pill. This line is missing. You have a shrinking pill? Start with that. All of this information that you've been giving start with, by the way, I invented a shrinking pill. And what you're going to do with it is go, no, no, no. We're going to rob some serious banks, dude. Also, I couldn't help but keep. When he was explaining how he figured out how to make the Radium pill work. Oh, my God. Those poor test dogs. How many test dogs died? Because that's what he said. [00:40:35] Speaker C: I assumed. He's just a really good scientist and it was just like. Worked again. Worked again. Okay, let's go for it. [00:40:41] Speaker B: So you're going to take this one now. And then when you get small enough, you're going to take this one. You got it, Right. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Speaking of grammatically and I mean, I'm not trying to be. They kept saying growing smaller didn't seem like the right way to. Can you grow smaller? Growing is outward and small. Do you understand what I'm saying? [00:41:04] Speaker B: It was like, I'm increasing. [00:41:05] Speaker A: They said that line five, six times. Oh, he's growing smaller. [00:41:09] Speaker C: What did you say? He's shrinking smaller. Which is redundant. He's becoming smaller. [00:41:13] Speaker A: He's becoming smaller. [00:41:15] Speaker C: Growing or he's shrinking? Yeah, the Steve Martin bit. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Like, hey, let's get small. [00:41:22] Speaker B: This is the Ulysses of dark fantasy. This is a masterpiece. You got me, Eric. You've convinced me. [00:41:31] Speaker A: What did I do, Eric? What did I do? [00:41:33] Speaker C: Thanks for bringing this episode. [00:41:35] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no, no. [00:41:38] Speaker B: As you say, this is a triumph. [00:41:40] Speaker C: I love when his fellow scientists are like, we're not gonna see you tiny and nude, are we? And you want me to pick you up? [00:41:49] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:41:49] Speaker C: Tiny and new. [00:41:50] Speaker A: By what? [00:41:51] Speaker B: And they're trying to shout to get his. He's four feet tall now. Can you hear us? Yeah, four feet. People can hear. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm growing, by the way. [00:42:07] Speaker H: I'm smaller. [00:42:08] Speaker A: I am. The louder you are. Actually, when I grow smaller, it does. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Though, really feel like a Mary sue scenario. Once he shrinks, though, right? Because he finds himself in a magical world in which he meets a princess who is accepting of him immediately. And he says yes to him. And there's no dark side. Like, immediately when he goes there, I'm like, okay, what's the conflict? What's gonna happen? No, everyone loves him, accepts him. He saves the entire moonbeam universe. All the moonbeam people love him. And, you know, you are literally two thirds into this story with no conflict until he goes just. Oh, I probably should have introduced a conflict. Was my sister here? [00:42:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's Alice in Wonderland, but it's. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Yet another literary reference. This is just chockful. Eric, you gotta write a paper on this. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Dan, it's Dr. Shrinker. [00:43:08] Speaker C: Speaking of growing small, there's also that moment where one of the scientists. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Inner space. [00:43:12] Speaker C: He's the size of a small ant, not one of those huge ants. Yeah, if you can't Sleep. Turn this on. This is like. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Oh, I agree with you. This is like, I barely made it through it. [00:43:28] Speaker C: Believable. But it was. I'm gonna keep bringing it back to David Lynch. The night he died, I watched Lost Highway. And in the early scenes of Lost Highway, I had this really weird moment. Watch. A weird moment watching a David lynch film. But Patricia Arquette and Bill Pullman, they deliver all their lines. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Oh. [00:43:50] Speaker C: In this hushed, dark fantasy tone. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Were they in Batman? [00:43:54] Speaker C: No, not like Batman. That would be hilarious. [00:43:58] Speaker A: There are scenes in those movies where everybody talks like this. [00:44:02] Speaker C: There's life in a moonbeam. I'm Batman. [00:44:05] Speaker A: That kind of dialogue in movies is why I had to get hearing aids. [00:44:09] Speaker B: A beautiful moment in this story that genuinely sort of got me was when he's talking about there are these infinite number of worlds, these infinite moonbeams. Like every moonbeam's got a whole world down there. And maybe we're just a temporary little world inside of a larger moonbeam. These stories are just flights of fancy. As you were saying, there's not really stakes. [00:44:31] Speaker C: There are none. [00:44:33] Speaker B: We're just floating in the ether. [00:44:36] Speaker C: Yep. Which is that liminal space again between consciousness and sleep and between back pain and sleeping. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Right. My God. [00:44:48] Speaker C: We're uncomfortably shifting positions throughout this narrative. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Oh, my God, my arms are asleep. [00:44:56] Speaker C: You know that point when he shrinks. [00:44:58] Speaker B: And Cat won't move? [00:44:59] Speaker C: He shrinks and puts a pillow between his legs in the hope it will help. [00:45:08] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Let's vote. Let's vote. Joshua, you're first. [00:45:15] Speaker C: I can't say that any dark fantasy is an all time classic of old time radio in which you would say. [00:45:21] Speaker A: To a unsuspecting nice person, you know. [00:45:25] Speaker C: That you're like, hey, start with this. But to me, this is a classic of dark fantasy in that it is an uncompromising vision of Scott Bishop. It like, seems like a lot of what he attempts to do and is sort of half there in other episodes is fully realized. It doesn't mean it's fully realized as a amazing piece of art, but it is very coherent. He is aiming for something. This is my memorial to David lynch. So I'm gonna do another David lynch anecdote. But there's that. Did you guys see the Fabelmans? No. Okay. Well, it's one of his last screen appearances. Spielberg cast him as John Ford, the director, John Ford. There's a great scene where John Ford is giving a young Spielberg standing character a lecture, basically about film, where he tells the Spielberg character to go look at the pictures on his wall. Where's the horizon in this picture? Well, it's on the bottom. Where's the horizon in this picture? It's on the top. And in this. Great. Very appropriate to both lynch and to John Ford, he says when the horizon is on the top, it's interesting. When the horizon is on the bottom, it's interesting. When the horizon is in the middle, it's boring as. And for some reason, that scene and that anecdote struck me in listening to this Scott Bishop, as absurd as he is, as ridiculous. And I take back no laughter I have ever had at Scott Bishop's expense. This is not a, like, complete re evaluation. It's more like I want to express what I feel has always been there. But I have maybe haven't expressed about Scott Bishop in that I feel like he's a guy that's always going to find the extreme. He's not interested in the horizon being in the middle at first. And in these episodes, it goes from top to bottom. It's not natural in a way that any sort of perspective in real life would really work. But that's part of the charm of this. And so to me, this is a classic dark fantasy, but also just a great way to fall asleep. [00:47:36] Speaker B: We have collectively really cast him as a sort of Don Quixote figure. You are wrong 90% of the time, but when you're right, you are right in a way that nobody else is. [00:47:48] Speaker C: Yeah. And maybe nobody should be. [00:47:52] Speaker B: So I agree. I think this is a proof of concept for Scott Bishop that what he does can be beautiful and ridiculous in the way it's supposed to be ridiculous, as opposed to, like. I don't think you're going for that and moving. That's the thing I really responded to most is this. The characters and the stories are just ridiculous. As I said, they're just kind of meaningless slights of fancy. But it's kind of beautiful. [00:48:19] Speaker C: I'm glad you said that because I was maybe too embarrassed to say that there was something strangely poignant about the moonbeam. Of course, I forgot the moonbeam. I have an exit plan out of this absurdity into more absurdity. Never ending absurdity. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Here's my vote. [00:48:42] Speaker C: Again. I admire your uncompromising position. [00:48:52] Speaker A: Tim, tell him stuff. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I loved it, too. I. I can't add anything to what you said physically. I just can't do it. Please go visit ghoulish delights.com home of this podcast. You can find all kinds of other episodes there, including some dark fantasy. Yes, you can vote in polls Leave comments, let us know what you thought about these episodes. Leave fart noises. Like we could probably do that. And you can find links to other pages. Go to our merchandise store, get some merchandise and a link to our Patreon page. [00:49:25] Speaker C: Yes, go to patreon.com themorals and support this podcast. We really need the support. We have all kinds of great bonus podcasts you to listen to Patreon Happy Hours, my mysterious old book club. There is a lot already sitting there for you to just gorge yourself on should you become a member today. And also I think starting now we should send patrons a potion made mostly of radium just to sort of see what happens. [00:49:58] Speaker B: You know what this is for? [00:49:59] Speaker C: Yeah. You know Canaries in the Coal Mine. [00:50:02] Speaker A: The mysterious old Radio Listening Society Theater company does recreations live on stage of classic old time radio shows. We also do a lot of our own original work. Come see us perform and you can find out where we're performing, what we're performing and how to get tickets every month by just going to ghoulishdelights.com come see us. We'd love to see you. If you can't see us, we do record the audio of those live records performances and make those available to our Patreons. Another perk of being a Patreon. What is coming up next? [00:50:35] Speaker C: Next we will be listening to another patron request, an episode of lights out called Bathysphere. Until then. [00:50:49] Speaker B: It'S killing Eric. [00:50:50] Speaker C: He's got dark fantasy lungs.