[00:00:17] Speaker A: The Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society Podcast welcome to the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: I'm Tim.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Today we are listening to an episode I chose, the target from Escape. Escape was an anthology series from CBS designed to free you from the four walls of today for a half hour of high adventure. No locale was too exotic, no adventure too dangerous, no escape too narrow. In 1947, Radio Life magazine praised the quality of Escape's scripts, declaring these stories all possess many times the reality that most radio writing conveys.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: From its debut in 1947 to its final broadcast in 1954, Escape produced 230 episodes and the target was the 229th. We already listened to the final episode, the Heart of Kali, which we thought was excellent. Was the quality of this swan song a fluke or consistent with its predecessors? Let's find out and listen to the target from escape. First broadcast September 18, 1954.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music and listen to the voices.
[00:01:55] Speaker D: Tired of the everyday grind?
Ever dream of a life of romantic adventure?
Want to get away from it all?
We offer you escape.
Escape designed to free you from the four walls of today For. For a half hour of high adventure.
You stare down from the height of your plane and your brain keeps whispering. It's Massafuera. That's all it is. Just an island 300 miles off the coast of Chile.
But both you and the beautiful girl beside you know it's more than that. It's the last stop, the last time around.
A death trap from which there is no escape. Listen now as Escape brings you Toni Barrett's story. The target.
The drink, senor. You see? Ha. Another one of your talents. You can make like a waiter when necessary, huh? In Chile, senor, a man does many things to live. The weather was busy, so I got the drinks. It's not a reason for. All right, Pepe, all right. Forget it. You. You are angry. Look, let's not play games. He's an hour late now. Where is he? Perez? He will be here. I watch with great care. He has not come in yet. Trust me, senor, I haven't got much choice. Have I as being late. Is that part of the build up? Part of the sale you demand promptness in informer, senor. You ought to be used to it by now, huh?
You never get used to it because you want something. An assurance that this time you're buying the right thing. The magic word. The whereabouts of Arthur Matson.
And you'd fall for it every time and move on to where the whispered words said to go. Caracas and Lima, Cochabamba. And now Tauntaut. Sit in one more crummy little bar wait for one more sly little man with a word for sale. How long you search for him, this Arthur Matson? A year?
You watching that door? You sure Perez hasn't come in? You sure you know him? I know Perez, senor.
Why don't you relax yourself, senor.
Think of something of more pleasantness. Like what? Like the lady of great beauty in the next booth. From your country, is she not, senor? Yeah, way off base. Okay. Joint like this, she must be out of her mind.
That's fine. All we need now is our beef. Go see what it's all about, baby. See? I'll be right back.
Senor. Senor Kennedy. Come here quickly.
Pepe. What is it? Look, senor. There on the floor.
Is he dead, senor? What do you think? That knife's got him pinned to the floor. I.
I'm sorry. For your sake, senor. What are you talking about? The dead Juan. He is the one you are waiting for. He is Barris. The rest.
Another blank. Another dead end.
[00:05:56] Speaker E: What is it? What happened?
[00:05:57] Speaker D: Forget it.
[00:05:58] Speaker E: I've got to see.
[00:05:59] Speaker D: You wouldn't want to. It used to be a man named Perez.
[00:06:03] Speaker E: Listen, get me out of here now.
[00:06:06] Speaker D: Please.
[00:06:07] Speaker E: I can't be found here.
[00:06:08] Speaker D: Relax. It's a killing.
Want a drink?
[00:06:12] Speaker E: I've got to get out.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Please.
[00:06:15] Speaker D: Pepe, wait here for me. Come on, lady. Stay close to me.
There's a cab.
[00:06:35] Speaker E: Aren't you coming?
[00:06:37] Speaker D: No, no. You'll be all right. Cops will be here in a few minutes. A lot of questions. They'll want answers.
[00:06:42] Speaker E: Tell the driver Cuevas Hotel.
[00:06:45] Speaker D: Got a terra Jene. La senorita. Our hotel. Cuevas.
I'm at the Royale.
Call me in an hour.
[00:06:54] Speaker E: Who will I ask for?
[00:06:55] Speaker D: Kennedy. Vic Kennedy.
My turn.
[00:07:01] Speaker E: Eve. Eve Coleman.
[00:07:04] Speaker D: You'll call?
[00:07:06] Speaker E: In and out.
[00:07:24] Speaker D: She was. She was lovely, senor. Yeah.
What will you say if the police ask about her? That she didn't like blood. Bueno. Come on, Pepe. You know what the deal will be. The cops will come. They'll see. They'll ask questions and it'll end in drinks for everyone because life here is cheap. No, I didn't make it that way. Come on, I'll buy you a drink. We'll drink to Perez.
He was an informer, senor. You always drink to a dead man, Even if you wouldn't give him the time of day while he was alive. If you say so, senor. I say you. You are unhappy man, senor. I'm sorry for that. Yeah, I'm an unhappy man.
Once in your room, you will sleep, senor. I told you I want to talk. Come on.
[00:08:35] Speaker E: Well, it's not just any messages for me. No, senor.
[00:08:40] Speaker D: You sure? No phone calls?
[00:08:42] Speaker E: No, senor. I am sorry.
[00:08:44] Speaker D: Give me Ms. Eve Coleman @ the Hotel Cuevas.
[00:08:47] Speaker E: Of course. You take it in your room, senor.
[00:08:50] Speaker D: I'll take it here. Momentita, senor. You sure you don't want stick around, Pebby?
[00:08:59] Speaker E: Hola, Senor Kennedy. You said senorita Eve Colma.
[00:09:09] Speaker D: That's what I said.
[00:09:17] Speaker E: I. I am sorry, senor, but there is no one registered there by that name, Senor.
[00:09:25] Speaker D: All right, all right, forget it.
The lovely one who did not like blood. Yeah, this ain't my day, senor. Why didn't. I told you I didn't want to sleep. I want to talk.
Well, well, well. Do come in there, boy. Do surprise.
Yeah, I was under the impression this was my room.
That's not much of a greeting for a man that's come all the way from Hartford just to see you forgetting all your manners. Kennedy, this is Pepe Galvan, Mr. O'Brien. Pepe, Chief claims man of the company that puts clothes on my back. Be nice to him. He's a big man. I think I better social call O'Brien come 2000 miles just to see me. You're spending company money. We've plenty of it, dear boy. Even after pouring your expenses down the drain. Considerable expenses, I'd say. Sit down. You can take me off at any time you like. You got a better man? Put him on it. Oh, now, dear boy. Temper, temper, temper.
Wouldn't be fair to you, would it, Kennedy? After all, Arthur Matson was in your custody when he escaped with his bank's hundred thousand. You come all this way just tell me that they have a new idea back home, Kennedy. That perhaps you're not trying too hard to find Arthur Matson. That from your point of view, it might be just the thing you don't want to do.
I make myself clear? You don't have to fire me, O'Brien I quit right now. Don't be an idiot, Kennedy. You've been telling them they were right. You'll never get another insurance job as long as you live.
You know, Santiago. Kennedy. Boats still run. I can get there. Why? They didn't come down here just to fight with you. You got one last chance. Now listen to me.
Massafuera is an island 300 miles off San Diego. I know where it is, sir. A return on an office wanted. Describes an American living there. The description fits Arthur Matson.
You hear me? I heard you. Now take a look. Do, dear boy, do.
And I'll tell them back in Hartford that you still try it.
Bye, dear boy. Bye, Pepe. You really know Santiago? Si, senor. You still got a job. Get down the docks, get passage for both of us for tomorrow. Si, senor.
It's a three day trip. You know, on a fruit boat. I'd have to make this one if it was a rowboat. Pick me up in the morning.
The cabin is not so bad, Senor. You wish to? Ah. I'll go out on deck for a while. You unpack. See? I do that.
[00:12:44] Speaker E: I never even said thanks, did I? Vic.
Vic, you're angry. No, you're angry. You helped a girl who never said.
[00:12:56] Speaker D: Thanks and never called. Why? Was it too much trouble?
[00:13:01] Speaker E: Poor Vic.
Sweet Vic.
[00:13:04] Speaker D: Pigeon Vic. Si, senor. This is a Hotel Cuevas. No, senor. Is no lady here by name of Eve Coleman. Sorry.
Now why? A joke? A whim. What?
[00:13:14] Speaker E: Not a whim.
[00:13:15] Speaker D: I want an answer.
[00:13:16] Speaker E: It's too long a story.
Big, sweet big.
[00:13:22] Speaker D: I got the time.
[00:13:24] Speaker E: We got the time. You're wasting it. You're wasting.
You talk too much, you know that?
[00:13:38] Speaker D: Yeah. Bad habit.
Let's go sit down.
I'll set up these deck chairs.
There you are.
Hmm.
[00:13:56] Speaker E: Happy?
[00:13:56] Speaker D: Mm.
What do you think?
[00:14:00] Speaker E: Deck chairs should always touch closer, darling.
[00:14:05] Speaker D: Better.
[00:14:07] Speaker E: You know, someday somebody's gonna get smart and make a deck chair for two.
You're quiet.
[00:14:13] Speaker D: It's the setup to sit with a girl like you. To look out at places with names like Antofagasta Caldera.
You could get to like it. Yes, Eve. Yes, Eve. The way you ran out on me in Talcan.
Now you're here.
[00:14:32] Speaker E: Ah, questions. I can see them coming.
[00:14:35] Speaker D: Where are you going?
[00:14:35] Speaker E: To get dressed. I'll see you dinner, darling. You'll be pleased.
[00:14:58] Speaker D: You.
You look like a man who is in love but is not happy about it.
Nothing wrong, senor. Old Hammond. Occupational hazard. You Always add if 2 and 2 don't come up 4, it's bad if it comes 4 too easy. Bad again?
Si, senor. I want you to get a radiogram off for me to Hartford, Connecticut, to an insurance company.
[00:15:42] Speaker E: What is it, Vic?
[00:15:43] Speaker D: Nothing.
[00:15:44] Speaker E: Ah, nothing, the man says. Just like that. And his eyes narrow and his lips tighten and he wonders how to begin. And when I ask him, what does he say? Nothing. That's what he says.
And he fingers a sheet of paper in his pocket. Hopes I don't notice it.
[00:15:59] Speaker D: Very pretty. You're good with words, Vic. I got a present for you.
A new set of words. And they hurt.
[00:16:06] Speaker E: Vic, please.
[00:16:07] Speaker D: Because they tell me something. That there is no Eve Coleman. Only a girl who calls herself that. A girl who's.
[00:16:14] Speaker E: Who's really Mrs. Arthur Matson. Yeah, that's who I am.
Mrs. Arthur Matson.
Any complaints?
And he.
Vic.
Hi, Vic.
[00:16:50] Speaker D: You are listening to the Target. Tonight's presentation of Escape.
Tune in Monday night and meet Corliss Archer here on CBS radio. Remember, on most of these stations, every Monday night. Come on and meet Corliss Archer.
And now back to Escape and the second act of the Target.
Who is it?
[00:17:34] Speaker E: It's Laura.
Invite me in, Vic.
[00:17:38] Speaker D: You're another way in.
[00:17:42] Speaker E: They asked me if you were seasick when you didn't show for dinner.
[00:17:45] Speaker D: I'm sick.
[00:17:46] Speaker E: I missed you.
[00:17:47] Speaker D: Yeah?
[00:17:49] Speaker E: Did it hurt to stay away from me, Vic. Tell me how much it hurt.
[00:17:52] Speaker D: Get out of here.
[00:17:53] Speaker E: Is it the name? Is that what bothers you? Why don't you try it, darling? It's easy. Laura Madsen. Nice.
[00:18:01] Speaker D: What is it? Will you. What kind of dame are you?
[00:18:04] Speaker E: You asked that. You look at what? A child who reached for the moon and sulks because he found it a different color. You can't afford to sulk, Vic. Not you.
[00:18:14] Speaker D: What?
[00:18:15] Speaker E: The last time I saw my husband was an hour after his escape from you.
How does a little man like Arthur Matson get away from a man your size? Vic? How he buys us.
[00:18:27] Speaker D: You're out of your mind.
[00:18:28] Speaker E: You want the price? $5,000. Arthur told me hurting me won't change it, darling.
Doesn't change anything.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: You lie, dear. You hear what I say?
[00:18:42] Speaker E: I don't care.
Don't you understand that?
Not about any of it.
I Love you, darling.
[00:18:52] Speaker D: I. I.
[00:18:54] Speaker E: Say it.
I want to hear you say it, Vic.
[00:19:02] Speaker D: I love you. Alara.
You find out anything?
Catch My. My breast. Where is she, Pepe? Where? I've tried her cabin. Every place. Every place. Easy. Easy, senor. I just found out from one of the seamen. He. He saw her leave the. The moment with Doc She. She was the first one off. What? Well, she couldn't do. You sure it's what he say? It must be so, senor. She's nowhere to be found.
I'm sorry, senor.
Now, you take the stuff to the hotel. I got things to do. Be with the Santiago police most of the day. Which hotel, senor? What's the best casa? Santiago. Right on the beach. It's nice for swimming. All right, that's it then.
Last time around. Might as well go first class.
Must have been a long visit with the police. Is after eight, senor.
Haven't seen the chief yet. He's at the other end of the city all day. She'll be here in any minute. Then I see you in the morning.
You like the room and the radio? Yeah, fine.
Senor Kennedy? That's right. You Captain Delgado? Very late.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Delgado.
[00:20:56] Speaker D: With much apology. For what? Come on in. For taking so long to return your call. Oh, forget it. You didn't know I was coming. But of course I did, senor. Your Senor O'Brien said so.
Sit down, senor. Drink? Nice idea, senor. Very nice.
O'Brien phoned you, huh? See, I think we talk for maybe 20 minutes. A long time. Yeah. O'Brien can talk. Talk.
Need a drink. Gracias. Aala lo meresca, Senor.
My Spanish is not good translation. To each what he deserves. How you call philosophical, no? Yeah.
Well, I'm sure O'Brien told you the whole setup then. See? Everything.
What? Do you think it's possible this Arthur Matson is on Massafuera? If so, he won't be hard to find. A wild island, senor. Beautiful, but no different than it was thousands of years ago. Primitive, huh? See, they will know if an American lives on that island. They don't. You know, O'Brien, amigo, he asks me the same question. And I try to explain to him. Explain? Explain what, Delgado? The simple fact that Massafuera is just an island and that I have no. You call jurisdiction there comprending?
Yeah, yeah, I understand. Then we have no problems. None. Bueno. The day has been long and the bed will be. As a friend, if there is anything I can do for you here in Santiago, you will give me that pleasure. You've done it already, senor.
Then I say goodnight to you, senor, and the good hunting. I hope you find this Arthur Mattson before she does. She? The young lady. The lovely young lady who asks my lieutenant about Mattson only this afternoon. Whereas Noche.
[00:23:21] Speaker E: Open your eyes, Vic.
For me.
[00:23:25] Speaker D: Laura.
Laura.
[00:23:30] Speaker E: The man on Alone on the beach at night is trying to wash something out of his mind.
[00:23:34] Speaker D: Oh, Laura.
[00:23:35] Speaker E: No questions? No. Where have you been?
[00:23:37] Speaker D: I know where you been. Doesn't matter.
[00:23:40] Speaker E: Say it, Vic. I want to hear it.
[00:23:42] Speaker D: I love you, Laura.
[00:23:43] Speaker E: Again.
[00:23:44] Speaker D: I love you.
[00:23:48] Speaker E: Sweetie.
Laura's Vic.
[00:23:52] Speaker D: Worried? Vic Matson. What are we gonna do about him?
[00:23:57] Speaker E: Kill him, my daughter.
[00:24:00] Speaker D: Why, Laura? Why?
[00:24:02] Speaker E: You've always known you'd have to do it.
[00:24:04] Speaker D: Not less now.
[00:24:04] Speaker E: You took a bribe, darling, remember?
I don't want my Vic in prison. I want him with me, close to me.
Kill him. Darling.
[00:24:14] Speaker D: Laura.
[00:24:14] Speaker E: All that money.
A little nothing like him sitting on an island with all that money.
Our money.
You hear me, darling?
You understand?
[00:24:32] Speaker D: Our money, Laura.
[00:24:34] Speaker E: There's a plane in the morning.
They must have where it.
We'll be on it together.
[00:24:43] Speaker D: We'll be on it like man hunting, Laura.
[00:25:09] Speaker E: Oh, not eight hours of it.
[00:25:10] Speaker D: Elgato didn't tell me it was all uphill, Vic. Huh? What is it?
[00:25:15] Speaker E: Clearing just ahead. I think it's the top.
[00:25:17] Speaker D: It better be. Come on in. Time for dinner, Mr. Kennedy. I waited almost a year for you.
You're looking well, Arthur. Tired, but well.
[00:25:35] Speaker E: Hello, Arthur.
[00:25:36] Speaker D: We want to freshen up, my dear Arthur. And while you do, I'll entertain Mr. Kennedy. Show him what my island has to recommend it.
Freshen up, Laura.
That's enough. Let me play host, Kennedy. I'm out of practice. But let me try your drink, Laura. Yours. Kennedy lost his mind. Is that what you're thinking, Kennedy? That Arthur Matson lost his mind? A man who shows you a shabby little house he loves and the stone terrace he built himself and makes you a drink as civilized people do.
Values change, Kennedy. This is all I care about now. This terrace, the view from it, even the rocks hundred feet below. A great lesson, Kennedy. From here, everyone's a little man.
[00:26:45] Speaker E: I'm glad you're happy, little man.
[00:26:47] Speaker D: How am I going to die, Kennedy? Will you use a knife? A gun? How? What's the matter with you? I don't mind. Not really.
I've had a year away from her.
A whole year.
You'll pray for your island.
Don't take too long. You're crazy. Laura's doing better with you. Kennedy. You're going to kill for her. I only stole for her. You stole for yourself, master. So that's what she fed you.
Oh, poor Kennedy.
[00:27:23] Speaker E: Shut up. Shut up.
[00:27:25] Speaker D: You told him I had the money, Laura. Lovely. Lovely.
[00:27:30] Speaker E: Kill him, Vic. Now what are you waiting for?
[00:27:34] Speaker D: Who's got it? Matson. Who? She has, you idiot. She's always had it. But I'm the only one who knows it, aren't I, Laura? With me alive, you'd never be safe. Never be completely sure. You going to do your own killing, Laura?
[00:27:51] Speaker E: Let him live too long, Vic. He shouldn't have said that, Doc Movick.
[00:27:57] Speaker D: You're gonna kill us both, Laura.
[00:28:00] Speaker E: Both?
[00:28:01] Speaker D: Like you killed the little man in a bar back in Towtown?
[00:28:05] Speaker E: I bought that, darling. You were getting too close.
Say goodbye, Arthur.
Nicely.
[00:28:15] Speaker D: Not alone.
[00:28:17] Speaker E: No.
[00:28:18] Speaker D: I won't go alone.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: Let me go, Vic.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Help.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: Help me.
[00:28:22] Speaker D: Help.
You don't need help. Not anymore.
I need it now.
Under the direction of David Friedkin and Morton Fine, Escape has brought you the Target, a story by Tony Barrett. Featured in the cast were Whitfield Connor and Mary Jane Croft. Also heard were Edgar Barrier, Herb Butterfield, Hans Conried, Melitza Milo and Jay Novello. Your announcer, George Walsh. The special music for Escape is composed and conducted by Leith Standard Stevens.
Next week, you're at the end of a journey you've committed murder to make. A barren wasteland of India, silent, desolate, where there is a cave and a carved image of the goddess Kali, whose heart is a ruby, big as a grenade, and which is guarded by a smiling old man from whom there is no escape. So listen next week when Escape brings you Ross Murray's story, the Red Heart of Kali.
An honest doctor resists temptation but gets into trouble anyway. Tomorrow night, when Mr. And Mrs. North bring us their latest thrilling mystery. Don't forget, CBS Radio has a date for mystery with Mr. And Mrs. North tomorrow night. And you're welcome, too, on most of these same stations.
Stay tuned now for Night Watch, which follows immediately over most of these stations.
Where there's gun smoke, there's Western adventure. Monday nights on the CBS Radio Network.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: That was the target from Escape here on the mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric.
[00:30:58] Speaker D: I'm Tim.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua.
[00:31:00] Speaker A: That was my pick this week. I chose that and brought it to the table. I have my reasons for doing so. I will tell you that. I listened to it. I enjoy.
[00:31:12] Speaker C: Should hope so.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Not always the case.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: No, I listened to it and was like, oh, it's great. Now, here's the deal.
Usually I listen to everything before we record these twice, but if I don't have time or I think I got it, maybe just once. But if it's one I pick, I always listen to them twice because I feel like the person that picked it should have a lot of information in their head and A lot of the details ready to go and be able to lead the discussion.
And then something happened. I listened to it a third time just because I wanted to hear it again. That was. That was the entire. Like, I really enjoyed it. Now, that being said, I'm really curious to see if you enjoyed it and if you didn't, why, and if you did, did you enjoy it for the same reasons I did. So before I start saying stuff, I'd like to hear what you guys think.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: I thought that was amazing. Phenomenal piece of scripts, performance. Just soup to nuts. It's again, like Escape cut out at its peak. They were so good.
There's no reason we should not have another 230 episodes. Lilies out in the world. But the way the story delivered, it gives you little pieces of the whole backstory as you go in a way that isn't frustrating. In a way that it's. It's like a mystery unfolding in front of you and an adventure. And the thriller.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: It.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm just going to go on and on finding a different way to say, it's good. I liked it, but it's good. I liked it.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: I think I'm going to be the guy who had a slightly different response to this one. I don't have any really strong objective criticisms. This is another just excellently produced episode of Escape. The. The texture and soundscape in here is just phenomenal. And as we discuss, I'm sure we'll all bring up amazing moments. Just the confidence by 1954, that many of the creators of radio drama had as Radio was dying.
As Tim said, it's just so sad that we didn't get so much more. I'm also really fascinated to listen to Escape. Just do film noir. This is radio Noir. Oh, yeah, 100%. So that hooked me. I found the focus on the male characters and certain elements of film noir to be so ugly that it turned me off personally. And I am on record saying that I do not have to like the characters of a radio play to enjoy it.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Right.
[00:34:07] Speaker C: But I don't think it offered enough plot twists or a propulsive enough story to get me past how despicable. I found both Vic Kennedy and Arthur Madsen. I found them to be weak, venal, selfish men who blame women for their faults. Yeah, it's one of those things that. That's an intentional part of this genre, and I think they were leaning into it, but I feel the authorial voice at the end was like, we're just still supposed to feel bad for this Guy, Vic Kennedy, who I just think is the kind of man I hate in real life. This goes back to a couple weeks ago, and I'm having the lights out response you had to the college girls.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Right? Right.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: To this guy.
[00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I completely get that. For sure, you are absolutely correct that the texture, the pace, the feel, the production value of this show is exquisite. I think we all agree on that. The amount of evolution that radio had come to by this point. To understand that a few footsteps, some silence not explaining everything. Her walking up to him on the beach.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: Yep. Or there's also the scene after she has left him on the deck of the boat and we hear the Zippo lighter, the inhale and exhale of a cigarette and footsteps coming up to him. The confidence to just leave us sitting in that moment.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:39] Speaker C: And let those sounds wash over us. Just a beautiful piece of production.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: And what happens to your brain, that's what's so amazing, is why we love radio and audio. Drama is the instantaneous. I see it. I see it all in my head. And I think they do an excellent.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Job thinking about that very aspect of how it created the soundscape. I was struck by how much I love the illusion craft of doing this, of we're going to paint this scene with stuff you don't see. They're obviously not saying anything, but all the work that makes it so real is unreal and crafted. As opposed to the movement that came later to film in particular, but also television theater. Like, the idea is just to be as real as possible. What you're going to see is like a real actor really smoking and.
Which was probably in part a reaction to the artifice of performance before that.
But I love the talented artifice more than I like the gritty realism.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: So to go then to the next thing that Joshua said about the character. It's an interesting take that I so see and I get and I'm with you. But the other angle I have on it is this guy living in a terrible life that he doesn't love in a world that has been proclaimed to us to be grotesque. For example, someone gets murdered and we move on. That just happens where he lives, his community.
[00:37:17] Speaker C: Are you talking about Vic now?
[00:37:18] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: His whole life is.
[00:37:20] Speaker C: But that's from his perspective as an outsider. He's saying life is cheap there and that murder is because he has brought his garbage from. From outside into this community.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Let's assume that he's right, though.
[00:37:34] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: Okay. Assume that his perspective is correct. This is a crappy life. He has crappy job because he took.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: A bribe and he's running from right again. Like, he. You can't get away from the consequences of his own actions, which he keeps putting off on other people.
[00:37:49] Speaker B: That particular initial scene of the guy that described as pinned to the ground by a knife is so vivid and visceral that that's the first moment I think, in listening to it, that I.
[00:38:00] Speaker C: Was like, wow, it's a great opening scene. I was totally hooked. I will tell you where it lost me. And I think just this subtle change in noir trope would have helped me out.
In film noir, often love is used as a euphemism for pure carnal desire because of when it was made. You had to say, you're in love. And I think the weird choice for me in here is to play it that those two fell instantly in love. And that's how the actor plays it. He's broken up, distraught. If they had just played it as classic film gnar, it's just like, yeah, I'd like to hit that. And never asked me to actually invest in his feelings at all and his lost love, then I probably would have gone along with it aesthetically. And that is the one, like, from a writing point of view, that I have a hard time buying that he fell in love in two minutes.
[00:38:53] Speaker B: The what I liked in his character was I felt like to the very end, he always could have fallen either way of like, yeah, I'm gonna kill this guy and I'm gonna get a bunch of money and go live with her. Or like, I still am doing a job and I'm gonna take care. I'm gonna like, this guy robbed you. And I found your money. And I, yeah, I felt like the character. I'll decide when I get there.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: But we don't need to beat into the ground. It's that they asked me to care at the end. If you ask me to care, then you have to give him some redeeming qualities to care about.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I felt like he did ask me to have. He has a willful ignorance about she's using me. And there's no getting around the pile of coincidences that happen of like, oh, this person fell in love with me.
[00:39:39] Speaker C: And if he were a total, like, innocent golly shucks guy and he was. She was using him, then you might feel bad. He's already taken bribes. You know, they're all bad people. But then he wants us to feel particularly bad for him. And the An Arthur also blames her for his choice to rob a bank.
[00:39:59] Speaker B: I guess I didn't. I didn't feel like I was being asked to feel bad for him beyond anything of like the choice got made for him.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:40:06] Speaker C: One of my favorite characters in here was Captain Delgado, the philosophical cop.
[00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:12] Speaker C: Who comes strolling in.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Yes. Just like. That's not my jurisdiction. Wink.
[00:40:18] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Good hunting.
[00:40:20] Speaker C: I wish this were about him. His toast. To each what he deserves.
He seems to be aware that these are three people who are. He's going to stay out of it and let them kill each other off or whatever's going to happen.
[00:40:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: I think it's literally not his jurisdiction, but I think morally and emotionally it's not his jurisdiction either. Right.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: I washed my hands of all of you.
[00:40:44] Speaker C: Yeah. It definitely has that quality. What is the. The day has been long and the bed will be as a friend.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:40:51] Speaker C: It's classic film noir.
Sorry, I did not mean to like dump a cold bucket of water on the enthusiasm for Vic I had in mind.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: No, I. I just hadn't thought about it.
I did feel bad for him, but then after you said all that I realized, oh no, he's so. I'm rethinking how I think about this.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: She's also like really extreme.
[00:41:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:19] Speaker C: Have you guys seen the classic film noir Leave her to Heaven? Jean Tierney?
[00:41:25] Speaker B: I think it's been years and years and years.
[00:41:28] Speaker C: She is like the most despicable of femme fatales. And it made me think of that film. Just someone who is out to destroy everything and everyone.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:41:38] Speaker C: That level of destruction that is so destructive that it's ultimately self destructive for this character.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: She convinced husband to rob a bank. I've got all this money. And then by whatever pressure or unspoken of pathway, he's like, I have to go live on an island now. And then she's just going to go live her life happily rich until she finds out someone's looking for him. And then I will stop at nothing to make sure he doesn't get found. And when he is going to get found, I'll kill everyone here. I will operate in such a way that there is no me personal identity involved. I will be whatever I have to be, do what I have to do just to make sure that I never have to have any accountability for this money.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah. The thought I had was that it was established that was a very unhappy man. In fact, that's even stated by. You seem like an unhappy man. And he says something about being unhappy and like. So he's just a very unhappy man and has given some joy finally in his life, only to find out that she's manipulating that desire for joy and happiness and something other than the life he has, she's manipulated that for ulterior means, which made her the evil person. But now I'm starting to realize, no, she's not the evil person.
[00:42:57] Speaker C: Well, no, I think she is. It's just that he was blame. He was blaming everything on her. Like it's a way to retroactively relieve him of his crimes he's committed in the past. No, she's portrayed as absolutely. They're like three selfish, dysfunctional people all colliding at once. And obviously, that is a classic film noir situation.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: And the red flags he gets off of her at a certain point. This is you.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: Let me ask you.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: You're the wife of the man I'm looking for.
[00:43:30] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: When he goes back to his hotel room and that guy that he works for is there, There's a storytelling trope of people ending up in bad situations doing terrible things because they've somehow ended up trapped in that life. And they look up one day and go, oh, my God, what am I doing? How did I end up here? How did my life end up like this? And his reaction to the guy in the hotel room was, I don't have any choice but to do what he says. I've ended up in this terrible, horrible life taking bribes, doing all these things, all these terrible things, but does not like his life, does not like that he got there, wants a shot at something nice, and something nice seems to have come along. The disappointment when she calls the hotel and there's no one there by that name, and he says, yeah, never mind. Forget about it. You know, like, the actor and the writing, to me, portrayed this beautiful moment of such grand disappointment in the idea.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: That this was going to break my way.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: Finally, I might have had at least a night of something. For me, it was all set up to care about the guy, that his life was, for a number of different reasons, be it his own fault or not. Terrible.
[00:44:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:44:51] Speaker C: I mean, I think that is exactly what the writers are trying to make you feel. And it worked for you. That is the point of view of this script, is to feel for him. You fell for him. And that's a legitimate response. I just didn't.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: Because he made those choices.
[00:45:09] Speaker D: Right.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: We have sympathy because he is so compromised by forces out of control. But then I think Joshua does not sympathize with him because in that situation, then he just takes responsibility for none of it.
[00:45:21] Speaker A: Right.
Not good podcast. Watching me think.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: No, but this is good podcasting because we're grappling with the story. And this is, I think, why this is a powerful story. It makes you think about a lot of things.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: What you're seeing is that perspective never occurred to me.
[00:45:38] Speaker C: Well, we have that ugly scene. It's an amazingly written and performed scene when she reveals that she is Arthur Madsen's wife.
[00:45:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:49] Speaker C: He's struck. Strikes her.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:51] Speaker C: And her response is to laugh. And then she says, hello, Vic sends chills down your spine because you can read it so many ways to save her life. She's being abused that she's just going to laugh it off because Vic's a dangerous guy. You can read it as she is saying now, you just showed me who you are. So we are meeting for the first time. You're someone who's going to strike a woman because I didn't live up to your expectations or I disappointed you in some way. And you expect that, that I owed you some kind of happiness. So, again, the fact that I got turned off by it is probably a compliment to this radio play. It's an incredibly intense, well produced radio script and it's got a lot of moments that I reacted to.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:46:37] Speaker C: And in a way that I haven't in a while because we've been listening to ape related shadow episodes.
[00:46:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:46:44] Speaker B: The scene that I really, really, really enjoyed is when we finally meet Madsen.
[00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Because it is a cliche to have like. And now you meet the person you've been seeking all this time, high in a hill, in an exotic location.
And the performance is free from, to my ear, cliches. He is an intriguing, mysterious person who has intriguing, mysterious things to say. And there is a truth to be discovered in this moment for Vince.
[00:47:16] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: So it is like, you know, the classic story of you go on top of the mountain, encounter whatever guardian stands there and come back a changed person. That it felt really fundamental to that of satisfying the buildup to. I'm going to find this guy. I'm going to find this guy. I'm going to find this guy. And then I found him. And he has something to teach me about me.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. The other part of that scene, the ending there and meeting him is one. Are we going to discover what we've been led down the path to? And that is this man and woman are in cahoots to get him for some reason. Or there's something deeper. But what I discovered, or at least what I felt was this guy basically reveals. Oh, damn, she got you too. Look, there's no getting away from this one. She's going to kill me and. Or you're going to kill me. One of you is going to kill me. I've been waiting for this to happen because this person is so, so evil and so there's no escaping her. And whatever she wants, she gets. And now you've been drugged into this. And his nonchalance is interesting to me because it was this acceptance of this day was coming. I can't wait for it to be done.
[00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I got a year of utopia.
[00:48:38] Speaker A: And I knew heaven.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: And so that's the price I pay, is to die now.
[00:48:42] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: And felt to me like, this is going to be great. Yeah, this is going to be done to me.
[00:48:49] Speaker C: I hear everything you're saying. I think I agree with what Tim's saying, but it's a total male fantasy. It's all tied in with these fears of male insecurity and emasculation. The whole, like, he's a little man, you're a big man. Like, no one is accepting their part in this. And that would make it a more complex piece of writing. Not that she's innocent by any means, but they portray themselves as victims, right? They're not. He stole.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:17] Speaker C: And she put a gun to his head to go steal. It's because she made him feel a certain way that as a little man, he needed to feel. And then he stole for her. And that's his problem, not hers.
[00:49:30] Speaker A: So the concept then is you made that bad lie in it Again.
[00:49:36] Speaker C: If the story had presented a more complex point of view, it might have tempered my reaction. But right down to that very last line of the script, it's still asking me to care about Vic. And by that point in the story, especially after smacking her one, I have no pity left for the man. Right. Plot wise and a depiction of toxic relationships and masculinity. It's all fascinating and I think very accurate.
[00:50:09] Speaker B: That might be. Where my interpretation of this differs in that ending beat is I didn't feel like it was authorial asking the audience to feel bad for this man, for all the things that happened to him.
I felt like that he was not having to face the consequences of his choices now.
[00:50:31] Speaker C: So when he says, you don't need help anymore, I need it now, you mean he's like asking for help?
[00:50:37] Speaker B: I think.
[00:50:37] Speaker C: Or not.
[00:50:38] Speaker B: He's just saying, like, I'm ruined.
[00:50:39] Speaker A: Right.
That's what I took away from it was.
It's funny you say that. They Hamlet, this thing, everybody dies.
I felt like he Was dead.
That final line was. Didn't give me hope that he was going to do well. Yeah, he was destroyed by all of this. And he didn't feel.
[00:51:02] Speaker C: Feel.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: That's not the right word. But, like, there was no rebounding from this. They may be actually dead, but that he was dead.
Walking dead.
[00:51:12] Speaker C: Here's a question for you guys. Do you think this entire time that Vic was pretending or going through the motions to find Arthur?
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Was he just spinning his wheels on his menu? It was one of the options that he had. Like, that might be one way to sense.
[00:51:29] Speaker C: So this wild goose chase he's been on was legitimate. He was truly missing him each time.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: Yeah. That's part of my enjoyment of it, is he was going to decide when he got there of, like, which person am I? Which ending of this do I want to pursue?
[00:51:45] Speaker C: Yes. And I. I see that, but I'm. I guess I was wondering, did you have a reading? Was he dragging his feet to sort of keep himself from reaching that moment of decision, or was Eve. Laura screwing things up all along to keep him from catching up to him?
[00:52:04] Speaker A: No, that's.
[00:52:05] Speaker B: Well, that's the degree to which he dragged his feet at all. Was the degree to which, like, I could be happy with this woman. I could leave this whole mess.
[00:52:13] Speaker C: I mean, before that. Because by the time we arrive in this story in this little town in Chile, he's already been on a wild goose chase, and his company is already skeptical. Are you survived? Is there a reason that you're not tracking this guy down?
[00:52:27] Speaker A: He escaped him. Yeah, he escaped him.
[00:52:30] Speaker B: It didn't strike me that that was him dragging his feet. And I think she said, like, that was the first time that that's the guy who's looking for my husband. So I got to step in now.
[00:52:39] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:52:39] Speaker B: That's how I took it. Although I.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: That she kept thwarting his ability to find him.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Well, up to that point, I think she wasn't involved. I think that was her first.
[00:52:48] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: Stabbing that guy was her first intrusion into his story.
[00:52:52] Speaker C: The more film noir read on this, which is what this is really leaning hard into, is that Vic is just coasting along. He's trying to avoid, as you said, that ultimate decision of who he's going to be.
[00:53:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: I can also say, like, fix not the best guy at this job.
[00:53:10] Speaker C: Yes.
He's no Johnny Dollar.
[00:53:15] Speaker A: No. Well, that's the other thing I liked about it, was he wasn't dark Johnny Dollar. He wasn't infallible. You know, he was very fallible. Emotion Wise, not great at his job.
Desperate to do his job. Right. His existence was at the approval of many other people.
Yeah. Sad sack is. He was a sad sack that thought he had a shot and didn't get it. And then when they both died, it wasn't retribution or the beginning of a new life. It was him falling even deeper into despair.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: I suppose his ultimate goal was to as got revealed. Like, I just want to know what happened. And he found out.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:02] Speaker B: But that was a separate goal from and I want to successfully get this money back. I want to successfully run away and be rich with this woman. All those things weren't apparently his real goal because that's not what he did in the end.
[00:54:17] Speaker C: And the final moment is he's off the hook.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:22] Speaker C: He doesn't have the redemption he thought he would have by being off the hook. The fact that they killed each other, There are going to be no consequences at work. Now Captain Delgado will come and say something condescending and philosophical and take the bodies away and he will still be a empty, hollow misogynist.
[00:54:40] Speaker B: Move on to his next case.
[00:54:41] Speaker C: Yes. And maybe not take a bribe this time, Vic.
[00:54:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:47] Speaker B: Or maybe.
[00:54:48] Speaker C: Or maybe.
[00:54:49] Speaker A: Well, should we vote?
[00:54:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:54:52] Speaker B: As I started out with, Escape Broadly is fantastic and just cranks out classic after classic. And I loved Heart of Kali and I loved this one. I thought this was fantastic. I'll say classic.
[00:55:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:55:08] Speaker C: Technically speaking, this is a superb piece of radio drama. My objections largely were not artistic ones. It's just from a moral or philosophical point of view. Never heard of it, didn't enjoy it. But on the other hand, I don't think art has any obligation to be moral or to promote a certain philosophy or ideology.
I had a really strong reaction to it, but that's what art should do. That's why I don't believe in trigger warnings. You should actually have a really strong emotional response to art. So, yeah, promoting thought and discussion is ultimately more important than validating my feelings or my point of view. This was one of my favorite in depth discussions we've had in a long time on the podcast. So, yeah, I think it's a great piece of radio that I didn't like. And I liked that I didn't like it. I like that it elicited a lot of different responses from me after eight years of listening to old time radio.
[00:56:22] Speaker A: Right. Right.
Production wise, it is a classic. Performance wise, it is a classic.
I would have just said at the end of this classic had I not had this discussion.
After this discussion, what I was Hearing and listening to is not the same as it is at the end of our discussion. How I feel about it is now different.
[00:56:46] Speaker B: Did we ruin it for you?
[00:56:48] Speaker C: I also feel a little different about it too. So that's a two way street.
[00:56:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I feel different that I never stopped to consider that they were blaming women for things, which was very much a trope of the time, of the genre of noir.
[00:57:07] Speaker B: Yeah. That even though. That she's a terrible person, these things aren't her fault.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:13] Speaker C: Both can be true.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: I took it as a very base thing. Here's a human with a bad life, has a chance at hope, has it taken away. But when you look at it from the other perspective that it is just men writing stories to keep women in their place now I feel terrible. Like. Like that's what they did. Well, I mean terrible for that's what the intent of this was. To once again put women down and no one holding themselves accountable for their own choices. And I didn't stop to think about that. So I would not recommend this. Oh.
[00:57:50] Speaker C: But I think it's.
[00:57:51] Speaker B: I don't think it was the intent.
[00:57:52] Speaker C: Art should express all sorts of different things. Art should express good things, bad things, ugly things. It's a point of view. And if you just say you shouldn't listen to this.
[00:58:00] Speaker D: Right.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: Well, okay, so let me go back.
[00:58:02] Speaker C: And that's a contemporary view that if you don't like it, it shouldn't be seen or heard. And that's bad too.
[00:58:07] Speaker A: So this is a writer who has got a point of view that I didn't understand when I first listened to it and now I understand and I very vehemently disagree with what they were doing. But I think the production value was.
[00:58:24] Speaker B: Great writer was just careless. Careless thinking about what the consequences of this story as it is told are.
[00:58:31] Speaker A: The entire genre, though, perpetuated stereotypes that were no good. And this one did that too.
[00:58:36] Speaker C: So does everything we listen to in this podcast that is all sorts of art and entertainment and has. But we have the discussion so we can debate it and negotiate it. And again, I think from our lengthy discussion here, I see some other things that I didn't see either about it, particularly reading the end. I think Tim's reading of that as the man who now has had all of his excuses wiped away by them murdering them has to just stand there and now can't.
[00:59:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:10] Speaker C: Blame anyone else.
That's a reading of it that I did not go away with. So I don't think you should dismiss art, even if it makes you angry?
[00:59:23] Speaker A: I didn't dismiss the performance or the production value. I thought it was great.
Just the message it's sending.
[00:59:31] Speaker B: It is just a sexist flavor of the problem of not taking accountability for yourself.
[00:59:36] Speaker A: Right. All right, Tim, tell him stuff.
[00:59:38] Speaker B: Please. Go visit ghoulish delights.com that is the home of this podcast. You'll find plenty of other episodes there, including Hart a Kali. You can listen to different episodes there. You can leave comments, you can vote in polls. Let us know what you think. We're fascinated to hear what you guys think. We're fascinated to hear what each other thinks. We're very surprised by each other and you all the time.
You can also visit our store and get some T shirts or coffee mugs or stuff you might like that has our logo on it. And you can find a link to our Patreon page.
[01:00:10] Speaker C: Yes, go to patreon.com themorals and please support this podcast. We need so much support. You have all sorts of perks. In exchange for your financial generosity, you can listen to bonus podcasts. We have reached the point where we have a lot of bonus podcasts. Yeah, too many, in fact, we're going to start taking them off the site, so you better become a member quickly. You can also join us for Zoom book clubs, Zoom Happy Hours. You can join our Discord server. It is a real community, in all seriousness, that we have with our listeners and with our Patreon supporters, and we really appreciate it. So we think you will, too.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: And if you'd like to see us performing live, the mysterious old Radio Listening Society Theater Company performs monthly, sometimes more than once a month somewhere, and have been for a long time. Recreations of classic radio drama and a lot of our own original work. Come see us by going to ghoulish delights.com you'll find out where we're performing, what we're performing, and how to get
[email protected] and come on out and see us and that'd be great. But if you can't make it to our performance, being a Patreon, we do film, videotape, whatever, and sometimes audio recordings of our show. And you get access to those as being a Patreon as well. What is coming up next?
[01:01:38] Speaker C: Next we will be recording live at the Bryant Lake bowl in Minneapolis with our special guest, Shannon Custer, aka Eric's wife.
And Shannon has chosen two episodes of a series called Ceiling Unlimited, starring Mr. Orson Welles. Until then, I wasn't morally condemning you.
[01:02:06] Speaker A: No, but for this. But Yes.
