Episode 337: The Final Reckoning

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Look out. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Welcome to the mysterious old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:37] Speaker C: I'm Tim. [00:00:37] Speaker D: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:38] Speaker C: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:43] Speaker A: It's my pick this time and I'm doing an episode of Creeps by Night titled the Final Reckoning. The series ran from May through August of 1944, producing 23 episodes, seven of which are still in existence. The series had several hosts. On the west coast, the series was hosted by Boris Karloff, and on the east coast it was hosted by an anonymous voice known as Doctor X, who was played by multiple actors. [00:01:11] Speaker D: The series featured a number of stars throughout its run, Peter Lorre, Bela Lugosi, Raymond Massey, and Basil Rathbone. Karloff, however, was the main draw for listeners. The show gained a reputation for being unpredictable. [00:01:27] Speaker C: Karloff once said, there is no greater mystery than the mystery of the mind. The print ads for the series read, warning, persons suffering from heart trouble and those whose blood had a tendency to curdle and hair to uncurl under the stress of great excitement are urged not to listen. The station disclaims all responsibility for the health of those who insist on hearing this thriller. [00:01:47] Speaker A: However, they failed to advertise the upcoming stories or the upcoming stars in advance, and the writers didnt even receive any on air credit. Karloff stopped hosting after the 12th episode, and the unknown Doctor X hosted the final four episodes, marking the end of its run. And now we bring you Boris Karloff in the final reckoning from Creeps by night. Originally broadcast May 2, 1944. [00:02:14] Speaker D: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker listen to the music and listen to the voices. [00:02:41] Speaker B: We bring you creeps by night. The Blue Network presents the international star of stage and Scream, the master of mystery, Boris Karloff in creep by night. How do you do? This is Boris Karloff inviting you to join with us for another dramatic exploration into the unknown darkness of the human mind. Our theme tonight is revenge. We have chosen for you a story that plumbs the very depths of one of man's primary emotions, the eternal seeking of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. This is the story of a man who waited 20 long and heartbreaking years before the opportunity came to seek vengeance. But when it did, he stalked his prey with the cold and horrible stealth of a black panther creep by night. Presents Boris Carlos as George Miller in the final reckoning, as seen as the warden's office at the state penitentiary, a middle aged man, his shoulders hunched and his hair prematurely gray, stands before the warden's desk, clothed in an ill fitting prison made suit. His face is yellowed with the pallor of long confinement, but his eyes, set deeply in dark, shadowed hollows, are bright and clear. Looking at him, the warden speaks. Well, I wish you'd reconsider, George. I don't like to see you walk out of here in your condition. I'll be all right. Pardon? I'll be a fool. You've just gotten over a bad case of pneumonia. Why not spend an extra week or so in the hospital? Doc reed, put your back on your feet. My time is up at noon today, isn't it? Yes, but we're glad to. That's when I'm leaving. The moment that noon whistle blows you're in no shape to travel. Look at you. You're still sick, man. Definitely sick. I've been sick for almost 20 years, warden, ever since those iron gates out there closed behind me. I've waited a lifetime for the cure, your plan for it. Now I'm going to get it. You're just being stubborn, George. I don't understand it. You've been a model prisoner in every way in the entire history of the penitentiary. Only three men have had life sentences commuted, and you're one of them. And yet, in a matter that concerns your well being, you act like an obstinate fool. Why? Because I've got something to do, something very important. What's more important than your health? The thing I've got to do. Wait a minute. Are you going to do something that might land you back in here, is that it? Don't worry, warden. You know, come to think of it, George, there's something I've always wanted ask you. Something personal. Go ahead. In all the years you've been here, why have you refused to see visitors or mail? Why did you completely cut yourself off on the outside world? Well, it. It all boils down to this. A man ages a lot in 20 years. His voice changes and his way of talking, his features change. He becomes an entirely different person, especially in a place like this. Just knowing that you're hemmed in by four walls does something to you, something. Well, that's the answer. It's no answer at all. Yes, it is. I didn't want anyone to see me age to see the changes that were coming over me? The way it is now. The George Miller who is walking out of here at 44 is nothing like the George Miller who was brought in at 25. They're two different people. No one outside this prison will ever recognize me. Hmm. And is that what you want? That's exactly what I want. Why? You've got nothing to be ashamed of. You've paid your debt to society. There's another debt I have to pay to myself. It's been owing for a long time. I don't like the way you're talking, George. What's behind all this? 20 years, warden. The best part of my life. A minute ago, you asked me to look at myself. I don't have to look. I can feel it down inside. I'm an old man. An old man at 44. Self pity is a bad thing, George. I'm not pitying myself. I'm thinking about what brought me here. You've got the record right there in front of you. I said I was innocent then, and it's still hoes. I'm innocent now. That's a closed book. Why not let it stay closed? Because there's an unfinished chapter still to be written. Remember, you haven't served your full term. You'll be on probation for five years. I'll remember. I've had a long time to think it over. Hmm. Incidentally. Well, we're at it. There's one more thing that's been puzzling me. You'd better hurry. It's almost new. Six months ago, when it seemed pretty certain that your commutation was coming through, you made a strange request. You asked to be relieved of the job of running the prison library, a job you'd held as far back as I can remember. And you asked me to assign you as an apprentice to the prison barber. I granted that request, but I wondered about it at the time. Would you care to tell me why you suddenly decided to become a barber? I thought it might be a good idea to learn a trade. That's not true, George. There's the noon whistle. That means I'm a free man, doesn't it? Yes. Goodbye, warden. Take care of yourself. You haven't answered my question, George. You mean, why did I suddenly decide to become a barber? Yes. I told you I wanted to learn a trade. And I told you that's not the truth. You're right, warden. It isn't. I hear George Miller's arm. No kidding? [00:10:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:21] Speaker B: Got his sentence. Can you? Didn't know. He does. He better start moving, Charlie. This is Duke. I just cut. Chipped off. George Miller's out. Wonder what ace will do. [00:10:40] Speaker E: You want to hear something, honey? George Miller's out. Boy, would I like to see ace when he gets a nose. [00:10:47] Speaker B: George Miller's house. George Miller. Down. [00:10:48] Speaker E: George Miller. [00:10:49] Speaker B: George Miller. George Miller's out. Well, what you learned? It's two waste. Say, community sentence. He got out. Yes. What did I tell you? I spend 100 grand a year on smart lawyers and where do I get my information? From a hothead? A bar plot? What are you. Oh, sure, sure. I'm out of my mind. I don't know what I'm talking about. George Miller's dead. He died in prison ten years ago. Eh, well, that's what they told us. Who told you? Our sources of information. Your sources of information help. Make me laugh now, okay. And I'll get out before I lose my temper. Get only that out, I said. Here's sources of information. Vera, get me a drink. [00:11:30] Speaker E: Oh, hey, Sonny, don't get yourself all upset. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Shut up. Hey, shut up and stay out of this. None of your business. [00:11:36] Speaker E: Is that a nice way to talk? Who is this George Miller? [00:11:40] Speaker B: I said it's none of your business. What's that? [00:11:43] Speaker E: Just a doorbell. I'll answer it. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Wait a minute. [00:11:46] Speaker E: Now what? [00:11:48] Speaker B: Don't open that door. You find out who it is. You heard me. Find out who it is first. [00:11:54] Speaker E: Okay. Who is it? Who is it? No answering. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Tim Miller. China tick me. [00:12:04] Speaker E: Ace, I. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Keep your voice down. I'll. Listen to me in case anything happens. He threatened me. I had to protect myself. Do you understand? [00:12:15] Speaker E: Hey, what are you doing with that gun? [00:12:16] Speaker B: Never mind. You just follow orders. All right, open the door slowly. Open it, I said. [00:12:26] Speaker E: Nobody here. [00:12:27] Speaker B: What's that on the floor? What is it? [00:12:30] Speaker E: What a big rock. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Hello, Benny. This is Duke. You hear about Ace? Yes. Somebody left a dead rat outside his door. No, that was yesterday. I mean today. What about today? You get another one? Yeah, it came in a box in the mail. Holy smoke. Ace is ducking out of town. He's scared stiff. Where's he going? Up to his hideout in the mountains. All right. Take the car out of the back, Chuck. Okay, boss. [00:13:30] Speaker E: What about the bag? [00:13:31] Speaker B: Safe chuckle bring em. Come on. [00:13:36] Speaker E: How long have you had this place in the mountain safe? [00:13:38] Speaker B: Oh, a couple of years. Hell, what did you expect at summer resort? All I want is a place to hold up, lay low. The boys get Miller. There should be a bell around here. [00:13:52] Speaker E: Somebody in the house. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Don't you ever get tired of asking questions, fearless? I told you on the way up as a caretaker. The bell doesn't work. [00:14:01] Speaker E: Ask me, this is all a lot of crime. [00:14:02] Speaker B: Nobody's asking you. [00:14:03] Speaker E: Hey, Dinelli. Running away from a stair bomb. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Right down. Nobody's coming. Good evening, Mister Dinelli. Oh, good evening. Everything all set? Yes, sir. The master bedroom is ready now. We'll go right up, mister. Miss Carroll. How do you do? Hello. You're not the same man with Helski, are you? No, sir. That was Edward, my cousin. He's been ill and I've been substituting for him. My name is. Is Walter. Okay. Bring up a couple of brandies. We'll be upstairs. Yes, sir. [00:14:39] Speaker E: I sure hate to be holed up in a place like this for the rest of my life. [00:14:42] Speaker B: I'll just say the word and chuckle, drive you back into town. [00:14:45] Speaker E: Just kidding. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Well, stop it right now. I'm not in a kidding mood. Okay, Alex, what's wrong with this room? [00:14:54] Speaker E: Very nice, honey. [00:14:55] Speaker B: A space, four closets, double exposure. What more do you want? [00:14:59] Speaker E: Nothing, darling. Just a kit. [00:15:01] Speaker B: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Close the door. [00:15:04] Speaker E: Since when were you bashful? [00:15:06] Speaker B: Hello, Zayla. Get one thing straight. I came up here to play safe. There's a guy gunning for me. Until he's out of the way, I'm not taking any chances. [00:15:15] Speaker E: Oh, sure, I understand, Arnold. What I don't get is why you're so afraid to get this George Miller, whoever he is. What did you do to him? [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I set him up. Put him behind bars. [00:15:27] Speaker E: Did you? [00:15:29] Speaker B: You know, one of these days, Billy, you're going to ask the wrong question. [00:15:31] Speaker E: I know it's none of my business. [00:15:33] Speaker B: That's the ticket. [00:15:35] Speaker E: You tell me one thing, Ace. [00:15:37] Speaker B: What? [00:15:38] Speaker E: Those, um, good rats when we found outside the apartment door, and the one that came by parcel post in that little wooden coffin. What do they mean? [00:15:47] Speaker B: What do you think they mean? [00:15:48] Speaker E: I don't know. Got something to do with George Miller? [00:15:52] Speaker B: Well, you guessed right. Miller's trying to get me jittery. He knows I've got a bad heart. Planning these things to tell me. He thinks I'm a rat. I didn't want to pee. Has anything to do with it. Now, don't worry. I'm safe up here. The boys will get Miller. Yeah, it false her with your brandy. Okay, okay. Come in. Just. Just put the tray down on the table. Yes, sir. Will that be all, sir? I guess so. [00:16:18] Speaker E: What about our luggage? [00:16:20] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Did my man bring the bags up? Yes, sir. They're in the hallway, sir. I'll bring them in. Will you yes, sir. [00:16:27] Speaker E: So no water, ace? [00:16:28] Speaker B: I'll take it straight. Where shall I put the bag, sir? Oh, just set him down any place. Yes, sir. Will that be all, sir? Yeah. And don't forget to lock up. I won't, sir. Good night. Night. Oh, that. Yes, I know. The routine is gonna drive me nuts. [00:16:49] Speaker E: Talks like one of those fancy movie butlers. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Looks like a zombie. [00:16:54] Speaker E: Here's a drink, honey. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker B: How about you? [00:16:56] Speaker E: Now, I better get the bags unpacked first. All the stuff would be wrinkled. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Well, here's how I needed that drink. Now maybe I can relax. [00:17:07] Speaker E: Sit down and take it easy, honey. [00:17:08] Speaker B: You know, it's not gonna be so bad staying up here for a week or two. [00:17:12] Speaker E: Hey, how do you open this bag, ace? [00:17:15] Speaker B: Which one? [00:17:15] Speaker E: Yours. Black leather. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Oh, there's a little gadget on the lock. Just press it and it snaps open. You got it? [00:17:22] Speaker E: Uh huh. [00:17:23] Speaker B: And we'll get a good rest. What's the matter? What? Talk, shuck. Talk, you double dealing skunk around. I didn't do it. I decided. Spell it. Listen, Chuck, I know your kind. I know them from way back. You tell your mother for cash on the line, George Mueller got two years. He paid you to slip that dead red into my suitcase. I don't trust you either. I don't trust anybody. They're all a bunch of bloodsucking double crosses. You heard me. You'd like to see me dead, wouldn't you? [00:18:08] Speaker E: Can't. Get out of your mouth. [00:18:09] Speaker B: Get out, both of you. No. Get out. I said. Get out of the house. I'd stay out. Yeah? Who is it? It's Walter, sir, with your brandy. Well, bring it in. This is the last bottle, sir. Yeah. Put it down. Yes, sir. Will that be all, sir? Yeah, that's all. Oh, is it it? Water, sir. Come in. I thought perhaps you'd like something to eat, sir. It's been three days since you've taken any solid food. Yeah, three days. I brought an omelet and some toast. Oh, thanks. Thanks, Waller. Quite all right, sir. Hey, wait a minute. Yes, sir. You were pretty nice to me, Waller. Thank you, sir. Yeah, pretty nice. And I'm the kind of a guy who don't forget. I don't forget if a guy's nice to me. And I don't forget if he stabs me in the back. Neither do I, sir. Come in. I'm sorry to disturb you, sir. It's all right. It's all right. Come on in. And close the door. Yes, sir. What do you got there, Waller? Well, I thought now that you're feeling a little better, sir? Perhaps you'd like to be shaved. Did. Almost weak, you know. Don't tell me you're a barber, too. I have been a barber, sir. Well, I could use a sheriff, I guess. All right. If I may say so, sir, I think you'll find it very refreshing. Okay, go ahead. Where do you want me? The chair you're sitting in will be all right, sir. I'll get some warm water in the bathroom. You know, I've been thinking. When I go back into town, I'm gonna take you with. Yeah? I could use a man like you. That's very kind of you, sir. I like people like you around me. People who don't ask questions are getting your hair. Take care of what you're supposed to, and that's the end of it. I try to keep my place, sir. You got the right idea. How will I do? Lean back in just a moment, sir. I'll have to fasten the strop to the back of the chair. I want the razor good and sharp. You'll need a chair for this. Beer? Yes. You must have been wondering about me these last few days, Juan. No, sir. Not particularly. You mean you wouldn't like to know why I've been hiding out here in the mountains? Sure. You must have a good reason, sir. You can say that again. Someone's gunning for me. Gunning for you? Somebody trying to get me. Guy named Miller. George Miller. The name sounds familiar. He got a life sentence for Miller 20 years ago. Has quite a story out of the papers. He killed a girl. Did he? That's what the jury thought. He gave him first degree with a recommendation for Mason. I'd saved him from the chair. What did you think? I think about what? Lean back, sir. I'm almost ready for you. Hey, isn't that razor sharp enough yet? Not quite. I haven't used it in some time. What did you think about George Miller's conviction, sir? What's the difference what? I thought the jury cooked his goose. Did they? Yep. Oh, come on. Come on. What, are you gonna shave me? Get to it. I'm ready now. Lean back, sir. I'll soak you up. Okay. I assume this. This George Miller is out of prison now? Yeah. Got a commutation. Hey, you sure you don't need a lawnmower to get this beard off? I can do very well with a razor, sir. You know, I'm gonna feel like a new man when you get through. Yes, a completely new man. Ah, you're a funny guy, Waller. You talk like a college professor. I've had a lot of time to read and study in the past 20 years. A lot of time. Yeah. That's enough soap. Now just relax. Does the razor pull? No. Feels alright. That's fine. Nothing like a good, sharp razor. Yeah. Now don't move. It's rather difficult shaving you in this chair. If you move, I may cut your throat. That's not funny. It wasn't meant to be funny, Ace. What did you say? Sit back, Ace. One slip in your face. Finished. You're a dead rat, George Miller. That's right. It's been a long time, hasn't it, Ace? George. George. You wouldn't kill me in cold blood, wouldn't you? This isn't cold blood, Ace. This is hot blood, heated for 20 years. That's how long I've waited. Feel how sharp the razor is now. No, George. Be careful. Doesn't take much to split a throat from here to ear, you know. There. George. George. I'll give you anything you want. Maybe a price. Only one thing can pay for those 20 years, George. I've got a bad heart, you know. Yes, so I've heard. All I'm asking for is a break. Did you give me a break? When you framed me and set me up for life? I figured you'd beat the rap. I never thought they'd convict you. And you was misframing here. Yeah, but I never forget that you killed a Maguire girl because she knew too much. Because you wanted her out of the way. That cannot be. It's more than enough. Now feel the razor on your throat. Cutting. No, George, no. Cutting. Donut. Sheep. You said you'd be a new man when this was over. But you're wrong, ace. You're only a dead rat. Who is it? [00:25:18] Speaker E: There are. Ace have come back. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Come in, Miss Carroll. [00:25:28] Speaker E: Oh, hello, Walter. Is Mister Dinelli. Oh, there he is. You're shaking. Hey, Stalin. I couldn't stand being away from you. I had to come back. I couldn't order lettering. Is he asleep or something? [00:25:47] Speaker B: I'm afraid not, Miss Carolyn. [00:25:51] Speaker E: Why is he slumping the chair? Why is eyes staring that way? Why doesn't he move? [00:25:58] Speaker B: He can't move. He's dead. Dead? Oh, no. Falter. Yes, he's dead. And my name isn't Walter, Miss Carroll. My name is George Miller. George Miller. [00:26:18] Speaker E: George Miller? [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yes. Then you. You. [00:26:25] Speaker E: Killed him. [00:26:26] Speaker B: No, Miss Carroll, I did not kill him. You don't see any blood to you. But it did. [00:26:33] Speaker E: He said it was dead. [00:26:35] Speaker B: I'm afraid I played rather a gruesome joke on him. You see, I was shaving him with a very sharp razor. After I told him who I was, I held the back of the blade, the dull side, against his throat. As you know, he had a bad heart. Unfortunately, it couldn't stand astray. You murdered him. [00:27:02] Speaker E: You got the chair for this. [00:27:03] Speaker B: You're wrong, Miss Carol. Quite wrong. Ace. Janelle died of a heart attack. That's what a medical autopsy will show. You caused it. [00:27:13] Speaker E: You brought her on. [00:27:14] Speaker B: That would be very difficult to prove. I figured this out so carefully, Miss Carroll. I paid with 20 years of my life for a murder I didn't know commit, and now there's nothing the law can do to me or one that I did commit. Creeps by night has just brought you Boris Karloff in the final reckoning. Be with us again next Tuesday night at the same time over most of these stations, when Mister Carlos will present another weird mystery of the mind. The hunt. Creeps by night is directed by Dave Drummond. Original music is composed and conducted by Al Sack. The entire production is under the supervision of Robert Maxwell. [00:28:34] Speaker A: That was the final reckoning from creeps by night here on the mysterious old radio Listening Society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric. [00:28:43] Speaker C: I'm Tim. [00:28:43] Speaker D: And I'm Joshua. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Really quick point that I want to make before we get into discussion. There's seven episodes remaining of this, but that's also very confusing. It's not only confusing that Boris Karloff was hosting on the west coast or whatever, and Doctor X on the east coast, but then Karloff quit in a huff, and then Doctor X took over the remaining episodes. All that's kind of confusing. But there's also the remaining episodes. There are two of them, possibly three of them, that it is Peter Lorre actually hosting, and it's called mystery in the air. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:29:17] Speaker A: So there's about, I think, three left with Karloff. There's two that are. I think I got this right, that are Doctor X, and then there are two that are Peter Laurie saying, welcome to mystery in the air. So it gets even deeper. [00:29:31] Speaker D: Or is it mystery Playhouse? Because, Peter. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Mystery Playhouse. [00:29:33] Speaker D: No, it's Mystery Playhouse because those are the. The armed forces that Peter Lorre would introduce in those only surviving copies. That makes way more sense. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Thank you. That's what it's Mister Blake. Anyway, I just want our listeners know, if you're like. And then finally, there's one called the sisters that's still remaining, that the audio quality is so bad that I would like someone to clean that up. It's so crackly that, like, I got four minutes ending up. This is impossible. Consequently, we ended up with this episode because I wanted Karloff. I want to do another creeps by night. And now we get to this, our last three recordings. This is our fourth recording this evening. [00:30:16] Speaker D: Yes. [00:30:17] Speaker A: I didn't like three weeks ago, I didn't like Tim's pick. I didn't like a listener pick, and I didn't like Joshua's pick. Now it's my pick. Here we go. Am I going to get some retribution for not liking your shows? [00:30:32] Speaker C: Did you like, like your show? [00:30:34] Speaker A: I love this. [00:30:36] Speaker D: Typical. [00:30:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it really seemed like something you'd like. [00:30:43] Speaker A: I can't wait to see if you guys like this or not. [00:30:47] Speaker C: This is really in two acts with a little montage intermission. And the first act seemed to go on quite a while. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Agreed. [00:30:56] Speaker C: Hitting the same beat quite a bit there. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Agreed. [00:30:58] Speaker C: The animation was super fun with the montage of gangsters. It was almost a musical. And then the second act is just all this tease of Karloff as the manservant. And I loved it. It's just waiting for, like, is he gonna do it now? Is he gonna do it now? Now he's gonna do it. I don't know if it's the craft of the writing or specifically. Karloff is just a joy to listen to or all the combination, but I never lost the joy of, like, waiting for it to happen. [00:31:30] Speaker D: I pretty much agree with Tim exactly. This episode lives and dies on the shaving scene. [00:31:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:31:40] Speaker D: It's a great old time radio scene, and for me, I will give you a chance to go into it, but I just want to say what I loved about it was I didn't expect them to have the courage to have it go on as long as it did. [00:31:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:57] Speaker D: And that's where the tension just built. And it was also the payoff for Karloff's very understated performance. I love that scene. Not so much the rest of it, but that scene saved it. And I think the twist really works. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Yep. I agree with you both a thousand percent. I brought it for one reason, the shaving scene. I found it really, really. There was so much tension. I was looking out like, oh, my God, it's on his throat. Just do it. Just do it. It was so long that they dragged it out. It was so painful and wonderful. For how long? He had a razor to his throat. Karloff's acting, the silence, some of his responses just, I love that scene. The rest of it was a bunch of nothing. [00:32:54] Speaker D: I wouldn't even say the rest of it so much as that scene with the warden. I understood that the writer thought there was all this really important exposition, right? None of it was needed. [00:33:07] Speaker A: None of it was needed. [00:33:08] Speaker D: I don't know exactly why we needed to know he was a model prisoner. That was a weird bit of information. I mean, maybe so that we rooted for him, that he was somehow. [00:33:17] Speaker A: That he was innocent. [00:33:19] Speaker C: Well, it establishes why he got out of his life sentence. [00:33:23] Speaker D: Okay, you're absolutely right. [00:33:25] Speaker C: That opening. I thought the beats of expedition, like, okay, that's useful. That's useful. It's just, we hit this beat. We hit this beat. [00:33:32] Speaker D: But repetition, is it useful, is my question. Do we need to know ahead of time that he was a barber, that he had training? You don't need barber's training to cut someone badly throat. We honestly don't need to know at the top that he's unrecognizable to anyone, that he's aged so much. We certainly don't need to know that his health was poor up to this moment. That seems like a weird red herring. The warden is overly concerned. I'm like, did they have a relationship? It's really kind of strange. And like Stim said, it goes on and on. [00:34:14] Speaker C: Hey, I know you're getting out of your 20 year sentence, like, right now, but you want to stick around maybe, you know, eat some vegetables, have a few drinks? [00:34:24] Speaker D: Hey, what you doing after you get out? [00:34:27] Speaker A: Fiddle faddle. You know why you said that? Because that's what you. That's what would get you to stay in prison. Fiddle faddle, huh? [00:34:38] Speaker C: Oh, I guess I could stay maybe a year or two more. [00:34:41] Speaker A: How much fiddle faddle are we talking about? [00:34:44] Speaker D: He's a hard bargain driver. [00:34:47] Speaker C: And I will also, I don't want to short change the other bits because the gangster montage of, like, what's the character's name? [00:34:56] Speaker D: George Miller. [00:34:56] Speaker C: George Miller, right. I kept thinking, the director of Mad Max, he's getting out of prison, finally. But just the George Max out of prison. Oh, George Max out of prison. George Max Miller's out of prison. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Not Mad Max and the rats. [00:35:07] Speaker C: And the whole time that it's almost like farcical pace of when he's like, yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, sir. I'll get that for you. Here's your bourbon, sir. At that point, the story is just for me, it was like teasing of like, kill him now. Kill him now. Kill him. No. Now kill him. No. [00:35:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:35:29] Speaker D: And here's my question. Do you think that suspense is derived from that scene? At the top and that we know Boris Karloff is George Miller. Or do you think that still would have been suspenseful if we just started this show? At the audio montage of George Miller's out of prison, I found out all the information because it's Boris Karloff and he's acting really funny. We would have a different type of suspense, but I think it would be just as suspenseful and better. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Joshua, you are absolutely right. If this starts with the perspective of the guy that he has to run because the guy he put in jail, it starts there and he's on the run. And this George Miller's coming. And the guy that meets him at the cabin, we don't know that's George. [00:36:14] Speaker D: Miller, but we know it's Boris Karl. [00:36:16] Speaker A: But we know it's Boris Karl. [00:36:17] Speaker D: A different actor, it might not work, but increased by night with Boris Karloff, you're like, that's the guy. How is he that the guy? Is he the guy? And you would just be correct. And so the suspense would be like, when is he gonna do it? It would be, is he gonna do it? Yeah, that's him. No, it isn't. Yeah, well, it's Boris Karl. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Oh, wait. The twist is Boris Karloff isn't George Miller. You'd be doing that to yourself. [00:36:37] Speaker C: But I think you need it. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:40] Speaker C: Wow. You need the little sign on says, I'm the bomb under the table. As soon as you hear his voice, I'm like, it's happening. It's in. [00:36:47] Speaker A: It's right now, right? [00:36:48] Speaker C: Every time those two characters in the same room, I'm set. You can't see me. I'm like poison. There's gonna be violence. Right now. I want violence. [00:36:58] Speaker D: I agree with you. I just think Boris Karloff's voice tells you he's the bomb in the room. Or, you make that scene 30 seconds. Part of what I think. What made me mad. They're so efficient with the other exposition. Like you said, those great montages, oh, he's out. And then we have the quick call. Did you hear about Ace? You know, and they seem to understand the need to present information in a quick and interesting way in other parts of the script except for at the top, which is just agonizing in comparison to the rest of it. Yes. [00:37:33] Speaker C: I won't argue with that. They could do it much quicker. [00:37:35] Speaker A: The other thing that they could have done is with the delivery of the rats, right? Is the idea of how were they being delivered? And they go up to the cab and, oh, my God, the rats still arrived. More red herrings. Who put it in there? How did it get in there? I think that could have been developed a little more. That that was the signs of their. Again, I'm going to go back. I'm just going to disagree with you because you're stupid. I believe that not knowing if Karloff's character, who's running the cabin, is the killer or not, would have greatly enhanced this. But let me go back. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Actually. I'm sorry. I will. Parenthetically, you don't 100% know he's there to kill him. [00:38:21] Speaker A: No, but you do. [00:38:23] Speaker D: Yeah, you do. After he said, I switched from a librarian to a barber. Because it's hard to beat someone to death with a book, right. [00:38:35] Speaker C: You just haven't tried. [00:38:38] Speaker D: I have. [00:38:39] Speaker C: I'm sorry, Eric, I interrupted. [00:38:40] Speaker A: No, I just. Joshua in the back of the bus trying to defend himself with that book. [00:38:45] Speaker C: You could use a shave, mister. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Going back, though, to the point of why I brought this, that scene, getting him in the chair would just sit over here and have a seat. And I think that knife sharp enough now and that it's so. I love the tension of that scene so much. I think it would be pretty good with any actor. A good actor. But it's so escalated by Karloff's performance. That script, the direction that. The silence. It's not long, but there are about three moments where it's beat, beat. Karloff talks, you know, like. And so you can actually see his face going, like, scrunching up and his anger. Right. You can see it. I just thought this entire scene was one of the classic scenes of old time radio, of tension. [00:39:49] Speaker C: I don't know at this time how well known or what versions of Sweeney Todd are out in the world, but it certainly calls that to mind. [00:39:59] Speaker D: Yes. It made me think of Sweeney Todd. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Yeah. You know what? It didn't. Until right now, I never thought about. Why would I not? Duh. Now I want meat pies. So. [00:40:12] Speaker D: Who put this dead rat in my meat pie? [00:40:15] Speaker A: When did Sweeney. [00:40:16] Speaker C: Everyone want one? [00:40:17] Speaker A: When did that get written? Is that older than I thought? I thought that was more contemporary piece. [00:40:22] Speaker C: The musical is contemporary. The musical is based off a play, which I think is also pretty contemporary, but I think the play was based off of stories from the era. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:40:31] Speaker D: The other reason I was happy you brought this, in addition to just the great scene, was that I think I recall myself saying when we listened to cat wife, when we listened very recently to the wailing wall, that I admired Boris Karloff's choice to lean into the material and give an over the top performance that matched the tone style of the shows he was in. And here, I feel like, is this nice proof text that those were choices on his part in those other shows because he plays it very muted, understated. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Yep. [00:41:10] Speaker D: And it matches this script. It builds the tension in a way that if he were going huge and chewing up every bit of scene, it would take the fun out of it. [00:41:23] Speaker C: We frequently will talk about the line between comedy and horror being so very thin, but for the absence of jokes, this end would be farce. I mean, just the pace is so light and quick, but as is, that makes it super suspenseful. [00:41:39] Speaker A: I think we've talked about it before. You know, there's a couple ways to scare the hell out of people, story wise and acting wise, and you can scream and yell and be crazy and terrifying, but also right here, and I feel Karloff had a lot of that in this. I may be putting too much. I felt his character's anger just being pushed way down. Way down. Just hang on. Just hang on. And so now let's get to what you said earlier, which I really love that you said. You said you like the twist at the end. Yes, and I did, too. And I'm really glad to hear that. That he doesn't kill him. [00:42:23] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:42:24] Speaker A: I love that. [00:42:25] Speaker D: And it's more than just the twist. It's how it's told to us. Because I had that moment where I judged the radio show, like, when his dying sound, the. [00:42:38] Speaker B: No. [00:42:38] Speaker D: And then it just cut off. I was like, that must have been at the time. They didn't want to have him, like, gurgling as his throat was cut. And I kind of went, mmm mmm. And I was sort of judging it for that. And then when the girlfriend comes in and she just thinks he's sleeping, I'm like, he'd be covered in blood. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:58] Speaker D: So it was really nice to fall into that trap. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I did the same thing. [00:43:03] Speaker D: I was totally had. [00:43:06] Speaker A: I was so had. [00:43:07] Speaker D: I was yelling at the radio show, and then I was like, oh, I see what you did there, Boris Karlov. [00:43:13] Speaker A: It's exactly right. I was like, what is she not saying? Then I went to the point of, she's behind him. The blood all went forward. She can't see. Like, I was trying to write it for them. You guys, there's blood everywhere. She's got to see it at some point. Oh, it was great. It was a great. [00:43:31] Speaker D: Love that scene. So I was making excuses in my head for it. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:43:35] Speaker D: Wouldn't let all sensors. Oh. Oh, this all tight. [00:43:38] Speaker C: Just like you guys don't bleed out in your sleep. That's just me. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:45] Speaker C: I should see a doctor. [00:43:46] Speaker D: It's fine. So, yeah, I was really impressed by that twist. [00:43:54] Speaker A: It's also, you know, as you guys know, and I think we all do. I have a. I love Boris Karloff. I love. He's one of my favorite actors of not only radio, but the screen. I love what he does. I love everything about him. And it was just another chance to hear him and in my head, see him perform, and I don't pass up those opportunities. And, in fact, Joshua just discovered a movie that I still haven't watched, but I'm going to. That we didn't know existed. With Karloff. With Lucille Ball. [00:44:29] Speaker D: Yep. Karloff has a. It's a cameo role, but it's a great role. And he appears with Lucille Ball. [00:44:34] Speaker A: What's it called again? [00:44:35] Speaker D: Lord. [00:44:36] Speaker A: That's right. So my point being is I'm never going to pass up an opportunity to watch him do anything. The Dick Tracy thing, where he plays. Doesn't he play gruesome? And the Dick Tracy serials from the 1940s, he's great in those. Anyway, point b. [00:44:50] Speaker D: He's great in this. [00:44:51] Speaker A: He's great in this. I just love the man. [00:44:53] Speaker D: If I had a time machine, I would go back in time and produce a Jeebz and Wooster adaptation with Boris Karloff as Jeebz. After hearing this episode, I wanted here Boris Karloff as angry Jeeves. [00:45:08] Speaker A: And I've said this before. There's that. [00:45:11] Speaker D: And Peter Lorre as I am now going to invent dino rebels. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Wow. You. Okay? That's the motivator. Okay. Not Robin Banks. Okay. So anyway, everything's money with Peter Laurier Karloff. [00:45:26] Speaker D: That would be a blast. [00:45:28] Speaker A: But even that. [00:45:29] Speaker D: Give me your money. [00:45:31] Speaker A: That rankin and bass Halloween special, monster a go go monster. I can never remember, but I watch it every Halloween. It's a full movie. Boris Karloff is an animated claymation I get. But God, I love that, too. I love that. I love everything that man does. [00:45:47] Speaker D: I was surprised at how many rats George Miller had access to. It might have been something he collected in prison or an alternate currency to cigarettes. I don't know. Something they traded in. This is a lot of dead rats. [00:46:00] Speaker A: He was in three skeleton key. [00:46:02] Speaker C: That's why he left the library. A lot of rats in this library. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Well, any other thoughts on this? To be honest, there's not a lot to delve into that we haven't. It's pretty surface y. Wow, that was a lot of tension. Wasn't that fun? Yay. I mean, we really could have done the podcast. Wasn't that fun? Yeah, I love that. The rest of that need to be there. No. Okay, moving on. [00:46:24] Speaker D: Maybe we should do this sort of like micro fiction. Like Micro podcast. Liked it, hated it. It was okay. Done. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Mysterious old radio listening society, for those of you in a hurry. Or we just speed it up so we sound like chipmunks. [00:46:38] Speaker C: We could just record, like, good, not good, and then link to whichever those two were. [00:46:44] Speaker A: Tim is stupid. [00:46:45] Speaker D: Double plus stupid. Let's vote. [00:46:51] Speaker A: I find that scene to be classic. It is a great scene. It is fad. It very quickly became one of my favorite scenes in all time radio. The rest of it does not stand. The rest test of time is not great. Overwritten, if not underwritten. So this is really difficult for me. So as an episode by itself, it's not great. But that scene, boy, I'd like to rewrite this. [00:47:24] Speaker D: I'm in the same boat where I love that scene. As Eric said, I love Karloff. I would love to do one of those fan edits and make this a tight 15 minutes episode. I think it might be a classic. Yeah. It just seemed like it had an idea that didn't fill the time slot and they had to pad. And the padding really shows. [00:47:48] Speaker A: What if it's just a half an hour of him in the chair with a razor to his neck? [00:47:52] Speaker D: Yeah. Or just expand that scene like a 45 minutes episode. It just doesn't quite, as a whole, reach classic status, but it certainly stands the test of time. That is a great, tense scene, and it's actually reminds me a little more of contemporary type of excruciating suspense stuff. Some of those, like, agonizing Tarantino scenes that just go on and on. [00:48:16] Speaker A: I always use the inglourious bastard scene. There's about four scenes in that movie that are so long and so full of tension, and I just, wow, this is really hard to take. And it's why I like that movie. [00:48:32] Speaker C: I weirdly in the position of, I like this better than you two. It's mostly the opening that has too much filler. It hits beats, I think, more often than needs to. But aside from that section, I think. [00:48:46] Speaker A: The gangster musical, the gangster musical, and. [00:48:49] Speaker C: All the interactions between Karloff and his prey, even before the shaving, all of it is the foreplay is important, is what I'm saying. I think it helps a lot. Which is not to say this is classic. I mean, it's not that much foreplay. [00:49:11] Speaker D: Slow down. No, seriously, I think you're maybe misunderstanding my comments when I say cut it to a lean 15 minutes. I looked at the clock. That opening scene with the intro is almost eight minutes. This is 24 minutes long. You take that out, it's going to be a type 15. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Or even just do it quicker in about 30 seconds. [00:49:39] Speaker D: I said tight 15 too many times. [00:49:43] Speaker A: I was wondering what was happening. Twelve year old Tim just came in the building. [00:49:53] Speaker C: So, yes, I really enjoyed it. [00:49:58] Speaker A: Okay, all right, time to move on. Moving on. Tim, tell him stuff. [00:50:02] Speaker C: Please go visit ghoulishdelights.com. that is the home of this podcast. You'll find a bunch of other episodes there. You can leave comments, vote in polls, let us know what you think. And you know, maybe you agree, maybe you feel differently and you think bars cut off is not worth the hype. And, you know, you can say that if you want. We disagree, but we'll find out in the comments. [00:50:22] Speaker D: We'll delete your comments. [00:50:25] Speaker C: You can also find links to our social media pages. You can find a link to our merchandise store and get some mysterious old radio listing society merchandise. A backpack, a tote bag, a coffee cup, t shirts, sweater, philosophy bag, maybe. [00:50:39] Speaker D: Working on everything we can to make some money. [00:50:42] Speaker C: And you can link to our Patreon page. [00:50:44] Speaker D: Yes, go to patreon.com themorals and support this podcast. And we'll take the colostomy bag off of our swag store. That's my promise to you. Yes, go to patreon.com themorals and become a member of the mysterious old Radio Listening Society. There are so many amazing perks. Would you like to hear even more podcasts with the three of us spouting our big mouth opinions? Well, you'll have a lot of those if you give us some money and you'll hang out with us on happy hours. You will join us for my mysterious old book club. You really are losing money by not giving us money. So go to patreon.com themorals. [00:51:25] Speaker A: That's a hell of an argument. [00:51:27] Speaker D: It doesn't have to make sense anymore, right? Look at the world around you. Arguments don't make sense anymore. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Hey, if you'd like to see us performing live, the mysterious old radio listening society theater company does on stage audio drama, recreations of classic old time radio shows and a lot of our own original audio drama, come see us perform. You can find out where we're performing every single month, sometimes more than once a month, by going to ghoulishdelights.com there you see where we're at, what we're performing and how to get tickets. If you can't make it to a show and you're a patreon, we film them. However, you should still try to go because if you're in the area it's a lot of fun. We'd love to meet you and the places we perform at. It's an experience. Great food, great night out. It's a lot of fun. Also, we have been recording a lot of our pod, not a lot. We have started to record some of our podcasts live and that is also something you come and watch us do and keep your eyes open and on ghoulishdelights.com to see where we're doing live podcast recordings in a theater. [00:52:37] Speaker D: And speaking of which, yes, our next episode was recorded live at the Bryant Lake bowl. We will be listening to an episode of Suspense Spence entitled a Thing of Beauty. Until then, fiddle faddle.