Episode 332: Death from the Deep

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The mysterious old Radio Listening Society podcast. Look out. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Welcome to the mysterious old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime, and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Aaron. I'm Tim. [00:00:36] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:00:37] Speaker D: We love mysterious old time radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out. [00:00:43] Speaker C: Today we listen to an episode of my choosing, death from the Deep, from the Shadow. [00:00:50] Speaker B: The Shadow made his radio debut in 1930 as the sinister host of the detective story magazine Hour, a radio series based on the magazine of the same name. This version of the Shadow was played with malevolent glee by Frank Reddick, who eight years later would play the doomed reporter Carl Phillips in Mercury Theater's infamous War of the Worlds broadcast. [00:01:12] Speaker D: The mysterious voice of the Shadow proved so popular that publishers street and Smith hired writer Walter B. Gibson to transform their radio host into the crime fighting star of his own pulp magazine. In turn, the popularity of the pulp magazine inspired another Shadow radio series. This time, the Shadow was more than just a host. He was the protagonist. Debuting September 26, 1937, this new incarnation of the Shadow starred up and coming radio star Orson Welles. [00:01:37] Speaker C: The Shadows friend and companion. Margot Lane was first played by Agnes Moorhead, but the character was named after director producer Clark Andrews real life girlfriend, actress Margot Stevenson. When Morehead briefly left the series in the spring of 1938, Margot Stephenson replaced her, playing her namesake opposite Orson Welles for the entirety of the 1938 BF Goodrich sponsored summer series. [00:02:05] Speaker B: And now let's listen to death from the deep from the Shadow, starring Orson Welles and Margo Stevenson. First broadcast April 3, 1938. [00:02:16] Speaker D: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music and listen to the voices. [00:02:36] Speaker A: Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows. Ladies and gentlemen, the shadow's exciting adventure will start in just a moment. But first, I have an announcement that should be set screaming across every front page in America. Because it's all about the safest thing on wheels, the new Goodrich safety Silvertown tire with the lifesaver trails. Imagine, not only does this sensational Silvertowne give you the greatest skid protection you have ever known and golden ply blowout protection that has already saved thousands of motorists lives, it gives you both of these life saving features at no extra cost. The new Goodrich lifesaver tread has a truly amazing action on wet, slippery roads. It does to the rain drenched roads. What your windshield wiper does to the windshield, its spiral bars that never end, act like a whole battery of windshield wipers. They sweep the water right and left, force it out through deep drainage grooves. Make a dry track for the rubber to grip. Don't let a skid endanger your life. Don't let a blowout throw your car out of control. Start riding on the new Goodrich. Spelled g o o d r I c h. Goodrich. Safety, Silvertowne. The sooner, the safer. The shadow. Lamont Cranston, a man of wealth, a student of science, and a master of other people's minds. Devotes his life to righting wrongs, protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty. Using advanced methods that may ultimately become available to all law enforcement agencies. Cranston is known to the underworld as the shadow. Never seen, only heard. As haunting to superstitious minds as a ghost, as inevitable as a guilty conscience. The shadow's true identity is known only to his constant friend and aide, Margo Lane. Today's story, death from the beast. Look at the water, captain. Calm as a mill pond. I tell you, I don't like it. No, no, Mister McLennan, that's not good talk for a first mate. You sound like a superstitious deck swabber. If the elements feel kindly, tortoise, let them be. I know, captain, but five days with the sea as smooth as a skating rink. She's a bad omen. Well, Mister McLennan, perhaps we'll have a good squall tomorrow to restore your peace of mind. For myself, I'll take any. What's that? Sounded like the engine room. That was more than a boiler, McFarlane. Hello. Hello down there. My dance. Answer. Hello, captain. Captain, we've been. Hello down there. We've been what? Captain Jones? Look. Look there. Look at that white path on the water coming toward us. He's a torpedo. We're not at war. Hold fast, Captain. It's going to hit a midshipman. All hands are counted. Yes, captain. All right, footsclay. I'll but this one, sir. And lower away all lively, men. We're just getting away in time, buddy. What's that? Loosen out of the water. Get ahead, sir. It's a submarine. A submarine? That's what did it. Not dragons. A man coming out of the submarine. Taxes. He's got a machine gun. It's pregnant. At the love of Hybern. Acme steamship agency. [00:06:54] Speaker E: I wish to cancel my reservation on the Princess Marie. [00:06:57] Speaker A: But madam, didn't you. [00:06:58] Speaker E: I'm not sailing, I tell you. Why, it be suicide. [00:07:05] Speaker A: But, Mister Williams, you can ship your goods with us. Our boats are safe. No boat is safe. But you'd be insured? Yes, at four times the usual rate. Oh, no. You can cancel my shipment. Gentlemen of the maritime commission we are confronted with a vital problem. In the past three months, there have been exactly 18 ships mysteriously sunk on the high sea. Ships belonging to the United States, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan. In fact, every major power. This series of unexplainable marine disasters has created a panic throughout the nautical world. Passenger reservations are being canceled. Freight shipments are being withdrawn. Crews are deserting the ships. Gentlemen, something has got to be done. Waiter, some more coffee, Margot. Yes, please, Lamont, two more coffees, waiter. [00:07:53] Speaker E: Now, what were you saying, Lamont? [00:07:54] Speaker A: Just this. Three months ago, Margot, the first ship disappeared. A few days later, a second ship was sunk. This time, the bullet ridden bodies of the crew were found dead afloat in their lifeboats. Horrible. Each succeeding disaster has been increasingly horrible. [00:08:09] Speaker E: And now all shipping is at a standpoint. [00:08:10] Speaker A: These atrocities could not have been brought about by international jealousies because each of the ships sunk has been owned by a company in a different country. [00:08:17] Speaker E: Who can be responsible? [00:08:18] Speaker A: Sure. But my deduction is, it's the work of a pirate. [00:08:22] Speaker E: A pirate? But, Lamont, a pirate in the 20th century. [00:08:26] Speaker A: Yes, Margo. And one more callous, more bloodthirsty than any buccaneer who ever sailed a spanish main. [00:08:31] Speaker E: Then why isn't he tracked down? [00:08:32] Speaker A: Because not a single person has ever survived these sinkings. Therefore, the pirate has never been seen. [00:08:37] Speaker E: Must be seen? Sometimes. [00:08:38] Speaker A: If he has a submarine. [00:08:39] Speaker E: Submarine? [00:08:40] Speaker A: Yes, Margot. [00:08:41] Speaker E: But how could an individual be in possession of a submarine without it being known? [00:08:44] Speaker A: If a man were rich and clever enough, he could have a submarine built. And complete secrecy. [00:08:48] Speaker E: There must be some way of finding him out. [00:08:49] Speaker A: Liz, before such a craft could be constructed, it has to be designed. There are very few expert designers or submarines in the world. In the brain of one of them, this pirate craft must have been conceived. [00:09:00] Speaker E: The Manta pirate submarine. Sounds fantastic. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Even more fantastic, Margot, is the motive of the pirate. He's prayed on every kind of ship from the superlimeoner to the common tramp. He can't be after booty because examination of the sunken hulls has revealed that nothing has been touched. [00:09:15] Speaker E: Why, Lamont? [00:09:16] Speaker A: Why? To find an answer to that question is a task for the shadow. [00:09:19] Speaker E: But how would you proceed? [00:09:20] Speaker A: I've already made a few secret inquiries at the Navy department in Washington. They told me of one chap who might be worth investigating. A mister. Mister Joseph Hart, a brilliant designer of naval craft who was dishonorably discharged from his position. [00:09:33] Speaker E: Where can he be found? [00:09:34] Speaker A: I have learned that he is living all alone in a small house on an oak road. A shadow is going to be a call on Mister Joseph's heart tonight. Will you pass me that bottle please, Fenton? Certainly. Say. Well, Joseph, I'm sorry to see you indulging in liquor. It frequently loosens the tongue. Sometimes makes a man say things that he later regrets. What do you mean? Just this. We share a secret justice. A secret which would be most unwise for either of us to divulge. I haven't said anything. I haven't charged yet. I fear as to what you might say. Your nerve is deserting you, Joseph. You must pull yourself together. How can I pull myself together? One night after night I'm tortured by the vision of a procession of helpless ship sinking down. Down to the murky depths, haunted by the faces of floating corpses, tormented by. I was a fool. I designed and built that submarine service for which you were well paid. Yes, with money soaked in blood. I'm responsible for the havoc and the terror that you're insane. Don't say that, you idiot. I'm no madman. Do you hear? Why did you come here tonight, Vinton? Because, Joseph, I've been wondering of late why I permit you to live. You're becoming increasingly dangerous to my interest. No, no. Unless you can prove to me that our secrets are safe and that you will aid me in the future. No. That was. Well, in that case I feel that you ought to be my guest on the next cruise of the submarine. I'd never come back. Is that what you mean? Quite true. But before. Shall I say before you leave us in mid ocean, you will have an opportunity to see the splendid efficiency with which your creation, the submarine operates. No, I'd rather you kill me right now and have it over. And deprive you of witnessing the thrilling spectacle of my accurate marksmanship to see them leap from the boats and tear like rats. No, no, Joseph, you can't miss seeing that. No, I'd do anything rather than be forced to see that. I thought you would maintain that attitude, Joseph. Or it may be necessary for me to request that you pack your yachting clothes. A contingency which we should both deeply regret. Goodnight, Joseph. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? I'll tell you what you can do, Joseph Hart. Who's that? There is a way to save you from the evil domination of Barry Vinton. Who are you? I am the voice of one who has come to help you. I am the instrument of your righteous vengeance. I am the shadow. The shadow? With my assistance, you can compensate for some of the wrong that you have done. But how? Tell me the secrets that you share with Vincent. Oh, no, no, I can. I'm afraid if you remain silent, the shadow already knows enough to hang you. Joseph Hart, you haven't got anything on me. I heard every word that passed between you and Vinton in this room. Tell me what I want to know and save yourself. Or perhaps, as Vinton so aptly put it, you'd prefer to pack your yachting clothes. Nothing can save me. What I've done is done. I can never escape my conscience. Then your conscience must tell you that it's your duty to all that you can do to stop Vinton's outrages. Yes, yes, yes, you're right. Now tell me the secret. Very well. Until a year ago, I knew Vinton only by his reputation as a millionaire sportsman. He was famous as a deep sea fisherman and a big game hunter. He came to me first seeking a design for a racing boat. I built it for him, and we became friends. And because of that friendship, you consented to build a submarine? Yes, but not for the purpose that he later used it. He told me that he wanted for a new thrill, believe me. Go on. When the submarine was built in Vinton's private shipyard out of Carrie's point, knowledge of its construction was carefully guarded from the world. It was not until the day the boat was launched that he told me his true intentions. What were those intentions? Vintley's lunatic. Coldly, murderously mad. He'd always been a killer, but he'd tired of shooting lines and gaffing marlins. Now his war brain had turned to what he regarded as a new sport, thinking of ships and the ruthless slaying of defenseless men. Now I understand. Why does he keep the submarine? I don't know. Are you telling the truth, Joseph Hart? I'm telling you everything. Why should I lie now? If I knew where that boat was, I'd blow it to pieces. Myself with it. Myself with it. Wait. Myself? That's the idea. That's how I could fool Barry Vincent. Why should I wait to die at his hands? No. No. What are you doing? I'll fool Barry Vincent. Here, put down that gun. No more tortured, sleepless nights, I see. No more screaming headlines. Another boat junk. And another. And another. No, Joseph. Hot. Don't never take me on that voice. I'll fool my saved, foolish, poor Joseph Hart. You've served us both. Now we shall see whom you have served best. Barry Vinton or the shadow. Ladies and gentlemen, in a moment, the shadow will be back on the air with surprises, suspense and a thrilling, unexpected climax. But meanwhile, here's something mighty important to bear in mind. When you drive a car, just remember that rainy days make the grass grow greener. They may bring out the best in flowers, but they bring out the worst in roads. Yes, beware. A road that's plenty safe when dry may become a dangerous skid trap when wet, sending your car skidding, spinning, swerving off the road. Motorists, why take this chance when you can now get a sensational new kind of tire that will stop you quicker, safer, than you've ever stopped before? The new Goodrich safety Silvertown, with the lifesaver tread impartial test, conducted by the country's largest independent testing laboratory against the regular and premium priced tires of America's 6th largest manufacturers, proved that no tire tested, regardless of price, came up to the new Silvertowne in non skid action. Furthermore, these unbiased tests showed that the new Goodrich Silvertown with lifesaver tread gave more non skid mileage than any of the other tires tested in its own price range. Imagine, the new Goodrich Silver towns averaged 19.1% more miles before the tires wore smooth, which is the same as saying, you'll get every six mile free. Yes, many tires cost more than the new Goodrich Silvertowns, but no tire at any price can give you the unequal skid protection of the lifesaver tread, the exclusive blowout protection of the golden fly keep dangerous, stranger. Put a set of these life saving, long mileage tires on your car without delay. And so Margot Hart finished telling me the story, and before I could stop him, he shot himself in the head. [00:17:18] Speaker E: Poor man. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Perhaps it was better that way. [00:17:20] Speaker E: It's a month now. How will you find the submarine? [00:17:23] Speaker A: Joseph Hart told me that it was built at Vincent shipyard out at carries Point. That's the logical place to start my search. [00:17:28] Speaker E: Is that where you're going now? [00:17:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:30] Speaker E: Do be careful, Lamar. Remember, that man's a lunatic. You'll stop at nothing. [00:17:34] Speaker A: The shadow hasn't anything to fear from Vincent. [00:17:37] Speaker E: I hope you're right. [00:17:39] Speaker A: This is as far as we can safely drive without being seen. [00:17:42] Speaker E: This is a desolate spot. I don't like it. There's a light. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:47] Speaker E: The shipyard appears to be surrounded by a high wall. It looks like a prison. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Perhaps it is a prisoner for those within its gates. Margot, before we go any further, I'll give you your instructions. [00:17:58] Speaker E: Yes. [00:17:59] Speaker A: I've already been in touch with the United States Coast Guard. You've been promised to give me poor cooperation. [00:18:03] Speaker E: Yes. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Once I found the submarine and know Vincent's plans, I shall communicate with you by our private wireless. And then you will relay my message directly to the coast Guard headquarters in Washington. [00:18:12] Speaker E: I understand. Good luck to the shadow. [00:18:15] Speaker A: The shadow thanks you. All right, let it down easy now. Okay, Phil. Well, that's the last of the torpedoes, Charlie. Hey, the sub must be going on a long cruise this time. Taking plenty of supplies and ammunition. Yeah. Hey, what's that? It was the wind blowing the door shut. What's the matter with you? Listen, Charlie, when are we going to get out of this joint? You know, we've been cooped up inside this shipyard for three months. It's giving me the creeps. Now take it easy. Gotta be back in prison. There wasn't nothing scary about prison. And you knew when your time was up, you got out. Maybe we ain't never gonna get out of here, huh? What do you mean? I mean this Vietn guy's a bug. He ain't even let us read no newspapers since we come here. The stuff about hunting whales with torpedoes. That sounds screwy to you? Listen, if he don't let us out of here soon, I. Shh. Because. Are all the torpedoes aboard? Yes, sir. We just sent down the last load. Better. Well, take care of these empty crates, then you may turn in. Yes, sir. Mister Vinton? Yes? We was wondering if we. Yeah, me and Charlie here were just talking about the. Well, how we've been in the shipyard here a long time now, and. What Phil is trying to say, Mister Vinton, is could we have a couple of days off on the outside? I'm afraid that would be impossible. Oh, but Mister Vinton, it's been three months. I've got a wife and kids. You're being well paid, aren't you? Oh, sure, you're giving us plenty of dough, all right, but we ain't getting no chance to spend it. And you will remain here as services are required. What if we don't want to stay here that long? What if we up and leave? Yeah, I wouldn't advise you to attempt that. You remember what happened to your associate, Mister Hadley when he tried to, as you say, up and leave? He fell from the wall. You mean. You mean that wasn't no accident? No, he was shot down. Oh. So, um, do you still want to quit? I thought not. Good night, Evan. Looks like we're in here for a long, long time. Yeah, maybe you are. And I'm gonna figure a way to get out of here. See? Perhaps I can be of some assistance to you. Who said that? I heard who. I said perhaps I can help you if you wish to get out of here. Who's that talking? Where are you? Don't bother to look for me. You can't see me. What is this, one of Vinton's gags or something? No, I am not speaking for Vinton. I speak for myself. Who are you? Men call me the shadow. The shadow shadow? How'd you get in here? The shadow is everywhere. What do you want? I wish to bargain with you. Oh, what kind of a bargain? By this time, you must be aware that you are both at the mercy of a madman. He's right, Charlie. You will never leave this place alive unless Barry Vinton is brought to justice. What can we do about it? I will promise you your freedom if you will just answer my question. Wait a minute. What do you think, Charlie? We're taking a chance. This may be a trick. There's no trick. You have the shadows. Wood. Well, what do you. What do you want to know? Where is Vinton's submarine? It's right below our feet in a secret underground berth. When does it sail again? Tonight at midnight. What is its destination? Well, I heard Vinton say something to the mate about Cape France. Good sailing at midnight. Cape Francis. The shadow wishes him good hunting. Calling Margo Lane. Calling Margo Lane. Proceed as instructed. Communicate the following information to coast Guard headquarters. Pirate submarine sails at midnight for waters off Cape Francis. Impress on coast guard the importance of the following directions implicitly if wish to bait the madman with terrorizing the Atlantic. What is that position, Mister Brush? We are 100 miles due east of Cape Francis, sir. Are we in the regular shipping lane? Yes, Mister Vincent. Have we no visibility for clear observation? Some has just recent, sir. Good. I'll take over the periscope now. Very well, sir. A fine day for hunting, Mister Branch. Hello. What's this? Have you cited something, sir? Take a look. See what you make of it. There is smoke. It looks like a steamer. Signal the engine room full speed ahead. Yes, sir. I can see your final. Full speed ahead. Ah, this is the life. There's nothing like it. The fighting of fresh quarry in this periscope. The excitement of the chase. The spine tingling thrill when the torpedo finds its mark. And then the climax on dick shooting them down with a machine gun like scurrying rats, Mister Brow. Stand by the torpedo tube. We're coming up fast. Yes, sir. Stand by the torpedo tube. Aye, aye, sir. We'll cut across a bow and swing to stop it. That should give us a perfect shot. Very good, sir. Be prepared to rise to the surface quickly. We make a direct hit with the first torpedo. Very good, sir. Stand by the foul and elevate our high eyes, sir. We're almost within range. Cut to half speed. Half speed ahead. Torpedo tubes number one and two are loaded, sir. Sopedo. Tubes number one and two are loaded. Look, look, broush. It's a fine big line. I heard me, Caesar. I bet the Orpheus. The Orpheus. I remember. Now reading of her sailing. She has a full passenger list. Several ambassadors are aboard. Full passenger would say that sounds most promising. Number one tube ready to fire. Number one tube ready to fire. Now I'll bring her a little more to the. Stop it. A little more. Number one, fire. Number one, fire. Yes, it's heading straight for a side. No deflection. Should be a perfect closer. Closer. Going to hit now. Why fail to explode? Was a dude. Number two ready to fire. Number two tube ready to fire. Number two, fire. Number two, fire. We won't fail this time. Yes, you will, Mister Vincent. You've just fired another dud. Who dared say that? I did. Who are you? Come out here where I can see you. You will never see me. I am a shadow. Shadow, eh? I've heard of you. The torpedo hit, but it failed to explode again. Reload the torpedo tubes. That would be a waste of time, Vinton. I've seen to it that all of the torpedoes are done. You'll regret this, Mister Shadow. This is the one time that you've matched wits with a mind cleverer than your own. Blow out the ballast tanks for a quick rise to the surface. I'll show you. I'll sink that boat with my deck guns. Benson, you're a madman. Madman, am I? Ha ha. Very well. I'll show you the full extent of my madness. Dick's awash, sir. Open the conning tower hatch. Get crew. Stand by. Demand the gun. Aren't you coming up on deck, Shadow, to witness the kill? I am already on deck. Sentence. Devil plague you. How don't you get up here? Show yourself. That is unnecessary. But never fear. I'll stay near you. The guns are jammed, sir. Jammed? Why, that's impossible. I neglected to tell you, Vinton, that I rendered your guns useless. So you think that you've outwitted me, Shadow. But you're wrong. Signal the engine room full speed ahead. My eyesir. Steer directly for that vessel's side. What are you doing now, Venton? The prow of this submarine is equipped with a ramming device. With it, we can sink any vessel afloat without injury to us. You didn't foresee that, did you, Shadow? In a few moments, we will rip open the hull of that liner and send it to the bottom as effectively as with any torpedo. So you don't believe me? Oh, yes, I believe you. But that liner is completely deserted. It was set adrift there by the coast guard. There's a veritable floating mine with enough explosives aboard to blow you to kingdom come. You're right, you know. Soon enough. You haven't far to go. Reverse engines. Reverse engines. We stop in time. We're getting closer. No, no. We're stopping. We're stopping. We're not going to hit. You see, Shadow? I've outwitted you after all. No. Vinton maneuvered your submarine alongside this ship just as I planned. All right, up there. Here's your men. Hold up your hands. Hold your hands, all of you. Who. Star. It's a trap. It's a trap. Yes, a trap. Perry Vinton. And this ends your reign of piracy and ruthless murder. Very smart, aren't you, Shadow? But not as smart as you think you are. Adam, he's going inside somebody. He's closing the house. Yes, yes. They all think they're so clever. But no one can outsmart Larry Linden. I'll go to the engine room. I'll maneuver the dive. They'll never get me. I must have. Below here. Now. Now. Check the valves. That's right. That's right. I love to hear what the shadow is saying up there. Now, he's probably saying it's no use trying to maneuver that dive very. Vincent. You. You. How did you get here, Shadow? Why, I merely followed you. Show yourself. Show yourself, shadow, and I'll shoot you down in your tracks. Here I am. Over here in this corner. Come ahead and shoot, Mister Vincent. Well, shadow. Well, you just missed me. Why, you. Your hardship is deplorable, Mister Benson. Who are you? That does not matter. Why don't you tell them who you are, you, glory seeker. I seek no glory. My reward is that ships and men can once more safely sail the seas. The shadow's work is done. You have been listening to a dramatized version of one of the many copyrighted stories which appear in the Shadow magazine. The weed of crime bears bitter fruit. Crime does not pay. The shadow knows all the characters and all the persons named are fictitious. Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. [00:30:42] Speaker B: That was death from the deep, from the shadow. Here on the mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric. [00:30:51] Speaker D: I'm Tim. [00:30:51] Speaker C: And I'm Joshua. [00:30:53] Speaker B: I just learned something I love after 7412 episodes of this podcast, that there are still moments where, oh, I didn't know that. This whole Margo Stevenson thing, brand new to me. [00:31:05] Speaker C: It's been another intro. [00:31:07] Speaker B: I'm sure I did. [00:31:09] Speaker D: Next time, too. [00:31:11] Speaker B: I thought Moore had played her. I didn't know she took a respite. But it's great because it leads to my first thing in here. Why is Margot Lane so weird in this? Who are you? [00:31:23] Speaker D: And where's Margot Lane? [00:31:24] Speaker B: Right? I just. And I kept thinking, was Agnes in a hurry? Was she phoning it in? It was. Now, reading this intro, I went, oh. Cause it wasn't Agnes Moorhead. That's why it was terrible. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Because, well, it was. [00:31:42] Speaker B: It was terrible. [00:31:43] Speaker C: Has very little material. It's not till the later ones, honestly. It's not until after Agnes Moorhead leaves that Margot Lane gets more than, like, a few lines. She just answers the hotline, essentially, right? Her walkie talkie. [00:31:56] Speaker B: But in that scene in the diner in the opening, she's so over the top reacting to, what do you mean? [00:32:04] Speaker A: How's that gonna happen? [00:32:05] Speaker B: What do you mean that happened? It's such a bad read and a bad take on. Cause Orison's like, well, this is what I think, and this is what's going on. Why? [00:32:14] Speaker A: Why? [00:32:16] Speaker B: And that's really mean. Because that's not what she did. But it is a note that I found it to be weird. And now we don't have to talk about it. Cause we realize, oh, it's not the great Agnes Moorhead. So, moving on. You have mentioned that this particular episode scarred you as a child. [00:32:35] Speaker C: I may have exaggerated, but it distressed me. Yes, because this was the era in which you could buy a cassette tape of an old time radio as a show, as an impulse purchase at the checkout. Checkout at the grocery store. Yep. In the seventies and eighties, we were in that nostalgia boom. And so I begged my parents for this. Or it might have been my brother Joe's shadow tape, and we both begged for them. And so we would often be allowed to fall asleep listening to old time radio shows because my parents went, oh, this is sweet and old timey. I can't tell you how many tv shows I was restricted from viewing that were so, so much tamer. In this episode, shadow, but it was just because it's old timey, so it has to be good for kids. And they would quietly sneak out of the room, say good night, I love you, turn off the lights, close the door, and then it was like, I'm gonna mow all you down and cackle. And it was just. [00:33:40] Speaker B: I love that they thought their idea of the cassette tape they got you was one man's family. Like that. That's what you were about to listen to. We have discussed in the past that the early episodes of the shadow with Orson Welles were a more open to the shadow. Being fallible, making mistakes, being a little more human than infallible hero, and also much more gruesome, much more violent, less restricted by laws of what you could and say and not say and do and not do. And no episode is it more apparent to me how gruesome these episodes are than this moment and this scene? They're on a boat. They get torpedoed. Right? Got it. Horrible. You guys are dead. You got torpedoed. Nope. The writers decided that they miraculously survived. Get on lifeboats just to be gunned down by machine guns. It's like, it wasn't enough to kill these guys with a torpedo. Nah. Let's give them a little hope. Let's give everybody a little hope, and let's take them out. [00:35:00] Speaker C: Not only that was burned in my memory as a child, and I do think as an adult, listening to it, what is fascinating about it, and I think, powerful about it, interspersed with the hokey old timey ness of it, is just what genuine emotion all the people gave who were being killed. Like, when the captain's like, stop, stop. [00:35:24] Speaker D: For the love of heaven. [00:35:25] Speaker C: You know, like, this is this genuine emotion, and it really. That's what disturbed me there. You know, as a kid, you watch cartoons, you watch Popeye, bugs bunny, and all sorts of violence, but I think this is, like, the first piece of violence I remember as a child being played straight. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:44] Speaker D: I resent, despite whatever the story of your history with this may or may not be. Clearly, you brought this to pander to me. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Yes, I was gonna bring that up. [00:35:56] Speaker D: And, well, job well done. Thank you so much. Cause I love submarine content. I love the shadow, the thing of. [00:36:05] Speaker C: The most dangerous game. [00:36:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:36:07] Speaker C: I didn't have the cultural literacy as a child to realize this is a shameless ripoff of. [00:36:12] Speaker D: But the. The thing of torpedoing a ship and then gunning down the people trying to escape. And that would be when your. Your german sub commander is like, I'm not a good person. [00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's real. Yeah. Still, they could have made the choices, right? [00:36:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:27] Speaker D: They did not have to include that historical fact. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Then they survived the gunfire, and then they had bamboo put under their fingernails. Then they survived that, you know, and they killed puppies in front of them. Like, it just. I'm so glad you brought up the most dangerous game. Cause I was gonna bring it up, and my note in my was, is it just me, or is this very similar to the most dangerous game? And Joshua just brought it up like this. Yeah, duh. Yeah. It's the most dangerous game. [00:36:52] Speaker C: But I will say to Tim's point, too, it's escalating it. It's updating the technology and the form of warfare available to people by bringing it into what would be the very contemporary world of 1938. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:09] Speaker B: There's something very terrifying about new weaponry, technology being developed. And then the next step of that is no longer in the hands of the military. It's in the hands of everyday citizens. Like when it, like, 38 would be. [00:37:25] Speaker D: When u boats are in the stopping convoys to Europe. [00:37:30] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:37:30] Speaker D: They are full fledged nightmare things. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:33] Speaker C: Yes. And it's that one upmanship from, oh, in the most dangerous game. It's a rich, powerful guy who bought an island and has to either lure people there or wait for someone to become shipwrecked. Here you've got a mobile island of death who seeks you out, who hunts you. [00:37:52] Speaker B: That's one of the discussion points, that this guy is just doing this for fun. And the thing I got hung up on is that for this guy, he has to convince an entire submarine crew to join him on this journey. [00:38:08] Speaker D: That's what part of it, like, you guys think you're hunting whales. Has no one told you what you're. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Doing but those guys. But the guys on the boat itself know damn well what they're doing, and they're on board. We're not getting any booty from this or money. We're hunting people for the hell of it. And is that bad writing or makes them even more horrifying? Do you understand what I'm getting at? [00:38:30] Speaker C: I think it is much more powerful as a. That that character is a black box that we can't even comprehend why. Than to give some trite psychological explanation. I think where, um, Hannibal Lecter went terribly wrong is when they started trying to delve in and give him some reason for being this almost supernatural evil who eats people. And suddenly it's really my. Like if you start from that strong of a premise to give it some sort of relatable origin story. Like, it feels weak to me in the story. [00:39:00] Speaker D: They, they. It's not like a shortcoming of, like, we didn't give him motivation. It's a big part of the story is like, why is he doing this? [00:39:09] Speaker C: He just likes it. Yes. [00:39:12] Speaker D: One of the shocking things is because there's. [00:39:14] Speaker C: Because he does, because he can. [00:39:16] Speaker B: But contemporary wise, you're so right that even Darth Vader becomes sympathetic eventually, like, we learn, is his motivation. It comes from, you know, difficult circumstances, and you somewhat become empathetic toward him. To just have someone where you is unfathomable to a certain extent. I mean, even now, you look back on Hitler, I guess, like, well, you know, they rejected his art. Okay, no, we don't say that. We do not give him a pass. All right? I just don't want the emails. [00:39:54] Speaker C: Well, no, but even that is this complex web of sociology, politics, an entire country, an entire population. Right? Like, this is a lone wolf. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Right? Right. [00:40:06] Speaker C: Who's doing all this, pulling the trigger himself. He doesn't have minions who go out and do this. He can't distance himself from any of this. I mean, like, that's what's so hard to fathom, that he's just cackling as he mows people down. And I think that that's what horrified me as a child, but also had that sort of dark attraction, as in, like, I'm listening to something adult, I'm getting a glimpse, you know, when you're a child, you know what it's like. [00:40:31] Speaker D: To be an adult. [00:40:32] Speaker C: This terrible world you're about to enter, and you're terrified of it, but you're also like, I'm gonna enter this, right? And there's that childhood excitement over it. [00:40:42] Speaker B: The shadow lens itself, the premise of the show, to huge plot loopholes that you've got to let go. But I still like to point them out. He's invisible, guys. Grabs a gun, is going to kill himself. You're invisible. [00:40:59] Speaker C: This is not a plot hole. [00:41:00] Speaker B: I go grab the gun from him. [00:41:02] Speaker C: I. Because later he says it, something along the lines, it was probably for the best I made. I think he thought he was guilty and deserved the shadow did. [00:41:12] Speaker B: Okay. Can I give you another one? [00:41:13] Speaker C: Sure. I'd rather be a plow hole than to be that dark, but I think there's no. I think there's evidence in the script. [00:41:19] Speaker B: That indicates that you are invisible and you're on the sub and it's drawn out. He follows him into another part of the sub, like, all of that, you're invisible. They take off, walk up behind, knock them all out in the head, be done with this. Instead of dummying up torpedoes and taking, and dismantling the machine guns. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Just. But he's got a go. [00:41:46] Speaker B: Knock him out crew, though. [00:41:47] Speaker C: Yeah, we just talked that out. Right? [00:41:48] Speaker A: He's got a. [00:41:49] Speaker B: He's invisible. [00:41:50] Speaker C: I know. [00:41:51] Speaker B: They don't know where it's coming from. Keep walking up behind him and knocking him out. [00:41:54] Speaker C: Could he knock out the entire. So you're telling me you wouldn't be sitting in this podcast saying how absurd it was there were eight minutes of the shadow one by one? [00:42:03] Speaker B: No, I think it would be a terrible show. That's what I'm saying. It's great. But just the reality is, and you know what? Come to think of it, I would listen to eight minutes of guys getting knocked out. All right, starboard. What happened to Bill? [00:42:22] Speaker D: I actually, it occurred to me, like, I think more sort of action hero types are like, you should get, if you can, ahead of time at their weapons, and like, okay, I gotta dismantle all this. [00:42:33] Speaker B: I gotta get it right. [00:42:34] Speaker C: I thought it was one of the better uses of his invisibility. If he's invisible, I'm gonna just go around, create a scenario in which I can't lose. Then I'm just gonna gloat about it and watch this guy run from, you know, weapon to weapon to situation to situation and laugh at him again. [00:42:53] Speaker B: If you take into account the idea of these early shadows, the premise is the shadow is somewhat of a sadistic bleep. [00:43:02] Speaker C: Yes, he is. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Then all of this plays well. You know, like, he's much closer to. [00:43:07] Speaker C: The character from the pulps, right? [00:43:09] Speaker B: He's just. That's. I could have solved this back in dry dock. I could have knocked you all out. But instead, I'm gonna watch you guys suffer. I also enjoy very much when a criminal in the shadow calls him Mister Shadow. Okay, Mister Shadow. [00:43:29] Speaker D: The one sort of plot point I like. Well, that is kind of lucky, was when, oh, the submarine has a ram on the front. All right, it's gonna ram this ship that he says, but it's got bombs in it. Okay, turn, turn. Don't ram it. Let's just park ourselves right next to it. Exactly where he wanted it. Yeah, as opposed to, like, I feel like ramming the ship anyways. Cause he's crazy, and he might have done that, right. [00:43:53] Speaker B: And if he had, the shadow would have killed himself. [00:43:57] Speaker D: I don't think there were bombs on it. I think it was just like Coast Guard. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Oh, so that. [00:44:02] Speaker D: Right, I think. [00:44:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:04] Speaker A: You. [00:44:04] Speaker B: That was a lie. [00:44:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it had to be a lie because the shadow would not have blown up the coast guard men who were on. [00:44:10] Speaker B: That's the coast guard. It worked on the emails. [00:44:14] Speaker C: Had he rammed the coast guard ship and there's no explosives in it, it would have sunk that ship. But it wouldn't have. [00:44:20] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:44:20] Speaker C: It's blown everybody up. And you do have the. If that were the first thing the shadow claimed to have done, he's already had proof that he has meddled with this ship. [00:44:33] Speaker B: Right? [00:44:33] Speaker D: Yes. In my review of, like, what was the shadow thinking in this particular moment? Which is a great way to enjoy the shadow, of course, was that was a little last minute improvisation of like, oh, this is the ramming thing. [00:44:46] Speaker A: There's bomb. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:52] Speaker C: I do like the very end when Vinton says, why don't you tell them who you are, you glory seeker? [00:44:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:59] Speaker C: This is the guy who's been hunting humans. So it's just funny in and of itself. But then the shadows, like, I seek no glory. Okay, excuse me while I monologue. [00:45:09] Speaker A: My reward is that the ship and. [00:45:11] Speaker C: Men can once again sail the seas. The shadows work is done. So he fits his name in there, right? He doesn't end up telling him who he is. The shadow, the guy who just saved everybody. Me. [00:45:21] Speaker D: That reminds me of another little bit of this that I really like, which is not necessarily, I think, typical of shadow episodes was that whole opening montage of how shipping business just tanked, like, almost immediately. People don't want to get on boats. They don't want to ship things. And sure, it's going to go through the roof in a couple minutes of montage, it establishes this is really high stakes. And the episode, I think, up to that point, has not included Lamont or the shadow suddenly really justifies, like, I gotta get involved right now. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Right? [00:45:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:53] Speaker C: Even though that guy does talk like a thesaurus. He's got, like, all the seaworthy adjectives there, like nautical, maritime. [00:46:02] Speaker A: I love how. [00:46:02] Speaker C: But you're right, it does tell you the stakes are not just the lives of human beings, it's just the whole industry of shipping the world. [00:46:11] Speaker B: I also love how all the great minds of the world that are in charge of solving things like this. It took a guy in a coffee shop reading the newspaper to go, I bet it's a sub. Like, he's the one that figured it out. Also that with a phone call, he's well connected. He's welcome. Give me a list. Of people that are going to be able to sub. Thank you. [00:46:34] Speaker C: I'm baffled. Let's ask this rich guy. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Lamar. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:39] Speaker C: He's a wealthy man about town. [00:46:42] Speaker B: I am always taken by these early episodes, the music and the announcer, the narrator in the early episodes, how they. It never captured that again. The music in the early episodes has an eerie, distant, hollow feel to it that kind of fades in and out, you know what I mean? And that could be quality of tape over the years, but it never matches that again. And the voice of who knows what evil. That's the best voice that ever did it. [00:47:17] Speaker C: That's Frank Reddick. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Frank Reddick, yeah. And it never got better than those early years of that opening and the feel and sound of that. Am I conveying this? [00:47:27] Speaker C: I agree. As a child, it took me so long to listen to an episode of the shadow because I could not get past that opening. It terrified me so much. And part of it was the music. It was that voice. But then once I got past it and we spent time with Lamont Cranston, and it's just, you know, Orson Welles, who does a great job, but he's still just a guy. [00:47:45] Speaker A: Right? [00:47:45] Speaker C: It's not this supernatural voice from beyond. [00:47:49] Speaker B: As the series goes on, the openings become less and less compelling as the openings are here. Tone of the show and the tone. Yes, absolutely. I can't put my finger on the sound of that theme and how it. It fades in and out, and it just. It's. It's like wind going by you. And I am being way too poetic, but I love it so much the way it sounds. And that's everything I have to say. [00:48:22] Speaker C: I would love to bring back. Pack your yachting clothes as a threatening euphemism, because the shadow likes enough. He picks it up, and he repeats it later. He's like, you don't want to pack your yachting clothes, do you? [00:48:39] Speaker B: You just made our next t shirt. [00:48:44] Speaker C: But I don't want to end without talking a little about the performance of the guy who designed this ship, because that stuck with me as a child. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Drunk, sad. [00:48:55] Speaker C: The regret. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Regret. [00:48:57] Speaker C: The remorse. It was powerful to me of, like, think about your actions. Like, actions have consequences. And the choice to portray that regret with such horrifying realism. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Yep. [00:49:16] Speaker D: I think both him and the psycho captain guy. [00:49:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:19] Speaker D: Were vivid. [00:49:21] Speaker C: Neither one of them treated this like it was a kids show. [00:49:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:25] Speaker C: Because I don't think it was initially. I think it became one. [00:49:28] Speaker B: I mean, he's drunk. [00:49:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:30] Speaker B: And he's suicidal. And that is not kids show. Material. [00:49:34] Speaker C: No, it is not. And, you know, we can argue whether the shadow should have intervened or not, but that's a pretty strong question mark in this show. [00:49:45] Speaker B: Any other thoughts? [00:49:46] Speaker D: That's some quality submarine material. Really liked it. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Once you start voting, then, Tim, classic submarine. [00:49:55] Speaker D: I have no arguments or rationale. I love me some submarine content. Yeah, classic. [00:50:02] Speaker B: Do you know what it's missing? I wanted. If you have submarine content, I need to hear the ping. [00:50:08] Speaker D: Too soon. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Ping? Oh, they didn't have the radar thing. [00:50:11] Speaker D: I can't remember when sonar got added. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Sonar. That's to me, though, is the clinic is like, I love trains because of the sound effect of the trains. I love submarines in radio shows because. [00:50:22] Speaker D: I want to hear, I'm sorry. Sonar was around by then. I've embarrassed myself. [00:50:28] Speaker B: Oh, Tim. But did they have that ping going on? [00:50:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Cause then they missed it. What do you think of this? [00:50:35] Speaker C: Oof. It is very difficult to separate my adult response to this from my childhood experience of it. But as a kid, it was so unsettling and yet so compelling. I already said it because it is this glimpse into this grown up world full of just awful things like despair, horror, terror, brutality. But it is still held in check by this one righteous hero who then you grow up a little and go, maybe he's not as righteous as he. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Felt he was a child. [00:51:12] Speaker D: It's that thing of, like, he's the leader. Least worst. [00:51:14] Speaker C: Yeah, but he's fascinating because he preys on the fears of criminals. But this whole show seemed to prey on the fear of children. My fear as a child of this scary world you're about to enter. So this is. I can't be objective. This is my, like, ur, text of the shadow. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Right? [00:51:32] Speaker C: Like, to me, this illuminates why I, as a grown ass man, enjoy listening to this show, because it seems to perpetually exist at this intersection of point, adulthood and childhood in a way that comic books kind of still do, but kind of stopped and have now just become sort of adult marketing and aimed almost exclusively at adults, have left children behind. But this still, for me, represents that same feeling that comic books had for me growing up, that they slowly lost as I grew up and the comic books changed. So, yeah, this is just a classic. A disturbing, horrible classic. [00:52:12] Speaker D: It has that lovely opening scene of the first mate staring out the perfectly still water, being afraid of it. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:22] Speaker B: I love the shadow. I will choose it frequently for my own personal fun to listen to. Do not like this episode. Oh, I know. [00:52:35] Speaker A: Summary. [00:52:36] Speaker D: I understand. [00:52:38] Speaker C: I can totally understand why you wouldn't like this episode. [00:52:40] Speaker B: It's not one my favorite shadows. It's. I've heard a lot of shadows that I like a lot more than this, and that's hard for me to say because I just listened to both of you guys and how much you love it, and I went, huh. Not a great shadow for me. And so I'm sorry. [00:52:59] Speaker A: No. [00:53:01] Speaker B: Both of us. [00:53:02] Speaker D: That the. The wrong Margot doesn't help. [00:53:05] Speaker B: Yeah, she was not great, but I love the shadow, just not this one. [00:53:11] Speaker C: That's fair. [00:53:12] Speaker B: Good. Thank you. Are we still okay? [00:53:16] Speaker C: I love how personal you think these opinions are. Okay, I'm gonna start making my opinions more personal. [00:53:21] Speaker D: I mean, if you said I needed less submarine, then I'd be hurt. [00:53:26] Speaker B: I needed more submarine and more ping. [00:53:28] Speaker D: We're on the same page. [00:53:30] Speaker B: Tim. Tell him stuff. [00:53:31] Speaker D: Please go visit ghoulishlights.com for more episodes of this submarine themed podcast. You can comment on episodes, vote in polls. You can send us messages, let us know what you think. You'll also find links to our social media pages. You'll find links to our store. If you want to buy some swag, there's some fun t shirts to be had out there in the world. And you'll find a link to our moral. This microphone's delicious. And you'll find a link to our Patreon page. [00:54:02] Speaker C: Yes. Go to patreon.com themorals and support this podcast. It's a really good thing to do with your hard earned money. It's not much money. Just a little bit of money goes a long way in this podcast because we're easy to please, really small wants in life. So please support this podcast. We've got extra bonus podcasts for you to listen to, bonus happy hours. We have my book club. You can join and talk about books. I know that's really the spiciest of our options, I realize, but for some nerd, some folks out there, they really like it. And it's a great group who regularly gets together and discusses morals adjacent literature. [00:54:45] Speaker B: And we are also a theater company, which includes not only the mysterious old radio listening society performing audio drama live on stage, doing classic recreations of classic radio drama and a lot of our own original work, but it also includes Ghoulish delights, which is Tim's company that does great theater work. And they have something coming up here in May of 2024. You should check out at ghoulish lights.com, comma, called the Bone House and the Outsiders, a double dip of onstage horror. Go see that if you want to see us performing audio drama live on stage, can go to ghoulish delights.com to find out when, where and what we're performing every month. And if you're a Patreon, we film them and you get to see those performances as part of your Patreon perk. But please come see us because not only do we want to meet you and see you, but also where we perform has great food. Everywhere we perform has great food options. Not intentional, just happened. What is coming up next? [00:55:45] Speaker C: Next, we have a listener request. We will be listening to an episode of appointment with fear entitled the clock strikes eight. [00:55:54] Speaker B: Until then, I needed more submarine and more ping.