Episode Transcript
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Welcome to the mysterious old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense, crime and horror stories from the golden age of radio. I'm Eric. I'm Tim.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: And I'm Joshua.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: We love mysterious old radio stories, but do they stand the test of time? That's what we're here to find out.
[00:00:44] Speaker C: We are concluding our month long series called Monsters on the air with this adaptation of the classic vampire story Carmilla, a novella by Sheridan Lafanu over 25 years before Bram Stoker's Dracula saw print. We already listened to one version of this story adapted by Lucille Fletcher for Columbia Workshop, but this time we're checking out the adaptation presented by the legendary canadian series Nightfall.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Nightfall was known primarily as a supernatural horror anthology series. Bill Howell, known for his work on CBC Playhouse, and Johnny Chase, secret agent of Space, pitched the idea for the show to Susan Douglas Rubes, the Canadian Broadcast Corporation's head of radio drama. The result was one of CBC Radio's most successful and most controversial drama series. It ran from July 1980 through June 1983.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Sheridan Lafanu wrote in a variety of genres, but is best remembered for his gothic works of mystery and horror. Mr. James praised him as being absolutely in the first rank as a writer of ghost stories. Carmilla was first published as a serial in the literary magazine the Dark Blue from late 1871 through early 1872. Later, in 1872, the text was reprinted in its entirety as part of In a Glass Darkly, a collection of Lafanus stories.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: How will this version compare to Lucille Fletcher's? We're about to find out as we listen to Carmilla from Nightfall, first broadcast November 20, 1981.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: It's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker. Listen to the music and listen to the voices.
[00:02:36] Speaker D: You.
[00:02:40] Speaker E: In the dream you are falling lost in the listening distance as dark locks in.
[00:02:56] Speaker F: Nightfall.
Good evening. Tonight's play is based on an all time horror classic by Sheridan Lefanou, adapted.
[00:03:11] Speaker E: Especially for the series by Graham Pomeroy and John Douglas. But right now, the name to remember is Carmilla.
[00:03:26] Speaker G: Children love castles and fill their dreams with them.
I I thought I was the luckiest girl in the world because I lived in one.
And then when I grew up, the dream stretched out its arms to take me with it into the nightmare dark.
We could never have afforded a real castle back at home in England, but in the wilds of the black Forest, my father's income was ample, if one didn't mind the shadows.
[00:04:18] Speaker E: So long as you're not frightened by rumours of trolls and coaches drawn by headless horses. Margaret. Germany should be quite pleasant.
[00:04:26] Speaker G: And so it was for years. As I remember, we were much alone. My widowed father, myself, the governors and a few servants in a wasteland of black furs stretching to the horizon.
The castle and the long white road unrolling the forage from one dark mouth of the forest to another were never more magical. One night.
That night when the moon should have hidden her face.
[00:05:00] Speaker D: Margaret. Margaret, where are you? Mapatit.
[00:05:05] Speaker G: Here, madame. Bathing in the moonlight.
[00:05:07] Speaker D: Indeed, indeed, masher. It is the land of fairy tonight. But you must not stay too long. When the moon shines like this, like silver all on fire. It is very dangerous, madame.
[00:05:20] Speaker G: Your petite alpha is a grown woman now. No more stories to frighten children.
Come, sit here by me. It's still bright as daylight.
[00:05:32] Speaker D: I had a cousin once. He was a sailor. Like a fool, he fell asleep on deck in such a moon as this. And when he woke, an old woman was clawing at his face.
[00:05:45] Speaker G: Oh, madame, you should have been german. You see spirits.
[00:05:49] Speaker D: I am german on my mother's side.
[00:05:52] Speaker G: One would never have known it.
[00:05:54] Speaker D: You make fun of me. But I tell you, look at the castle windows.
[00:05:59] Speaker G: They flash and sparkle in the light.
[00:06:01] Speaker D: It is as though hands not seen had lighted up the rooms to receive guests from the other world.
[00:06:09] Speaker E: Still trying to frighten my daughter, Madame Peridon.
One would think in 20 years you might have given up. She does not know the meaning of fear.
[00:06:19] Speaker G: Oh, papa. Madame has been trying to convince me that the moon is a bad angel.
[00:06:24] Speaker E: There are certainly some of them about. I'm afraid I have some rather sad news for you, Margaret. Would you excuse us, madam?
[00:06:33] Speaker D: But of course, monsieur, I will.
[00:06:39] Speaker E: Yes, madame.
[00:06:41] Speaker D: Did you not hear a sound?
[00:06:45] Speaker E: Nothing but the night, Margaret.
[00:06:50] Speaker G: No.
[00:06:51] Speaker D: Perhaps you are right, Marcher.
I grow old.
[00:06:58] Speaker G: So much beauty all around, Papa. And such a long face.
[00:07:02] Speaker E: I've had a long letter.
You remember me speaking of my old friend, General Spielstorf.
[00:07:09] Speaker G: How could I forget? You've promised that he'll bring his daughter Elizabeth to visit us just as soon as she's well enough to travel.
If you knew how I longed to meet someone my own age.
[00:07:19] Speaker E: I know.
I'm afraid now you will have to wait.
[00:07:26] Speaker G: But his daughter has recovered.
[00:07:30] Speaker E: His daughter is dead. Papa, you had better see the general's letter.
I am afraid he is suffering greatly.
The letter appears to been written by a man nearly half crazed.
[00:07:49] Speaker G: My dear Loriston, during the last days of Elizabeth's illness. I could not write to you and before then I had no idea of her danger.
[00:07:58] Speaker F: I had no idea of her danger.
[00:08:02] Speaker E: I have lost her.
[00:08:03] Speaker F: And now learn all too late.
The fiend who betrayed our infatuated hospitality has done it all.
I swear before Almighty God I will devote my remaining days to tracking and extinguishing a monster.
Sometime in the autumn or earlier, if I live my hunt may bring me to your area. I will then tell you all I dare not put on paper. Now, farewell.
Pray for me, dear friend.
Pray for me.
[00:08:43] Speaker G: Pray for me.
Oh, Papa, the poor man.
[00:08:53] Speaker E: What's that, Travis? So late, Monsieur Maggot, a carriage is.
[00:09:00] Speaker D: Coming through the woods on the north.
[00:09:01] Speaker E: Road and whipped on by a madman. Do you hear her fasty drives? But they will never take the curb by the great oak. Wolfgang. Manfred, come here. Quickly. Sail. Sail.
[00:09:12] Speaker G: Here they are, Papa, they got.
[00:09:24] Speaker E: Wolcamp. Manfred, see if they're hurt. See if there's anything you can do for them.
[00:09:32] Speaker H: I thank you, gentlemen. Thank you all. But there is no serious damage. You there, help my daughter. And be gentle as you go. Mind. There.
[00:09:45] Speaker G: From the overturned carriage stepped unharmed a cold and furious woman, all in black commanding the frightened servants as they brought out the most beautiful young girl about my age, as pale as marble who at first sight appeared to be.
[00:10:05] Speaker D: To be.
[00:10:10] Speaker G: She's dead.
[00:10:11] Speaker D: The young lady is dead.
[00:10:13] Speaker E: For God's sakes. Madame Peridon, control yourself.
Bring the young lady here. Manfred.
I thought. Her pulse still beats. She has only fainted.
[00:10:24] Speaker H: Oh, Lord, we are lost. Lost?
[00:10:27] Speaker E: My lady, your daughter is only suffering from shock.
A night's rest, one night only, and you may ride on.
[00:10:37] Speaker H: Alas, alas, that is exactly what I cannot do. I am on a journey of life and death in which to lose an hour is to lose all. I must go on instantly. My poor child cannot come with me now. God forgive me. I must leave her in the closest village.
Have pity on a poor mother. Tell me, how far to the nearest inn?
[00:11:04] Speaker G: Oh, papa, please ask her to stay with us. She's so pretty and so alone. I do so want a friend.
[00:11:13] Speaker E: Please, madame, would you do us the honor of leaving the young lady here as our guest until your return?
She would be a welcome friend to my daughter Margaret and my servants would answer her every wish.
[00:11:31] Speaker H: I cannot.
[00:11:32] Speaker G: Oh, please.
[00:11:35] Speaker E: You see, we insist.
[00:11:40] Speaker H: Very well.
Remember, it is at your own invitation. But of course, I shall return in one month. In the meantime, my daughter will be silent as to who we are, where we are from and where we are going. Thank you again, goodbye, my lady.
[00:12:02] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:12:03] Speaker G: Will you not say farewell to your daughter?
[00:12:05] Speaker D: Oh, yes.
[00:12:09] Speaker H: When she wakens, by all means, tell.
[00:12:12] Speaker D: Her I kissed her farewell.
[00:12:19] Speaker G: Of what adjut.
[00:12:30] Speaker D: It?
[00:12:30] Speaker G: Her servants had rided the carriage with astonishing speed and the lady in black stepped swiftly into it. A moment and carriage, horses, passenger and all had been swallowed up into the dark maw of the forest.
At the very moment when the last sound of wheels died away among the trees, the young lady opened her eyes.
[00:12:58] Speaker D: My mother, where is she?
[00:13:07] Speaker E: My dear young lady, your mother had no choice but to resume her journey immediately.
You are to be our guest here for a little while.
Our name is Lauriston.
[00:13:24] Speaker D: I am called Carmilla.
[00:13:28] Speaker E: May I present my daughter, Margaret.
[00:13:32] Speaker G: How do you do, Carmilla?
You aren't hurt?
[00:13:38] Speaker D: Oh, no.
I think I was hurt once.
But that was ever so long ago.
How beautiful you.
I was saying to your father only yesterday, Marcher. What a piece of luck. Is she not beautiful, this Carmilla here scarcely a month and already she loves you as much as we do. No, I swear she loves you more.
[00:14:20] Speaker G: She is very beautiful.
Her affection is flattering, but you are.
[00:14:27] Speaker D: Too cold, you english, to see her stroke your hand and brush your fine hair by the hour.
[00:14:33] Speaker G: I did so want a friend. Now I seem to have one indeed. But she is so different from anyone I have ever known.
[00:14:42] Speaker D: These noble families. You have only to look at her to know she is of old blood. Though she will not say. They are often very odd. I remember once in France, she appears.
[00:14:54] Speaker G: To eat or drink almost nothing.
[00:14:56] Speaker D: Pure delicates, Margaret. A refinement natural to her rank.
[00:15:00] Speaker G: When we take even the shortest walk. She's exhausted almost at once. I sometimes think she may be ill.
[00:15:06] Speaker D: Because she does not strut about like a peasant. You must read the modern authors.
As for living, our servants can do that for us.
[00:15:20] Speaker G: A funeral here, so far from anywhere?
[00:15:25] Speaker D: It is the forest ranger's daughter, you know. They found her there. This heard.
I will go and say a prayer for her. Will you come?
[00:15:33] Speaker G: No, madame.
I promise to meet Camilla here.
[00:15:37] Speaker D: I will pray for both of us. Then do not stay too long. It will be dark soon.
What is that hideous music?
[00:15:47] Speaker G: Pamela, those poor people are weeping and you talk as though we were at a concert.
[00:15:51] Speaker D: Don't you hear how discordant it is? How it grates the ears?
[00:15:57] Speaker G: On the contrary, I think it is very moving. Our religion.
[00:16:02] Speaker D: How can you tell that your religion and mine are the same?
Your forms wound me and I hate funerals. What a fuss.
Why, you must die. Everyone must die.
And all are happier when they do.
[00:16:23] Speaker G: I think she would have been happier to live.
[00:16:25] Speaker D: She?
I don't trouble my head about peasants. I don't even know who she is.
[00:16:33] Speaker G: She is that poor girl who thought she saw a ghost a week ago. They say she has been dying ever since.
[00:16:39] Speaker D: Tell me nothing about ghosts.
I shan't sleep tonight if you do.
[00:16:45] Speaker G: I hope there is no epidemic coming. The swineher's young wife died only a week ago. And she imagined that something took her by the throat. The doctor says that so much delirium surely means fever.
[00:16:57] Speaker D: The swineherd's wife? Well, her funeral is over, I hope. And her hymn sung. And our ears shan't be tortured for her like this.
[00:17:12] Speaker G: Carmilla, are you ill?
Your face.
[00:17:18] Speaker D: Come close to me. Hold my hand tight.
Tighter.
[00:17:26] Speaker G: You are crushing my hand.
[00:17:30] Speaker D: Ham. Sorry.
It is passing away.
See what comes of strangling people with hymns?
[00:17:54] Speaker G: Camilla, I don't understand.
Sometimes you are the gentlest friend I could ever imagine.
[00:18:00] Speaker D: And sometimes, dearest, think me not cruel.
I obey the irresistible law of my strength and weakness.
If your dear heart is wounded, my wild heart bleeds with yours.
[00:18:24] Speaker G: You have not wounded me, dear Carmilla.
[00:18:27] Speaker D: I fear I have.
But you see, I cannot help it.
As I draw near to you, you, in turn, will draw near to others.
And learn the rapture of that cruelty which yet is love.
[00:18:57] Speaker G: I don't know you.
I don't know myself. When you look so and talk so.
What do you mean by all this, my darling?
[00:19:10] Speaker D: Seek to know no more of me or mine.
[00:19:17] Speaker G: Please trust me.
[00:19:20] Speaker D: Trust me with all your loving. Spiritual.
[00:19:36] Speaker G: That night, I had what I imagined was a dream.
I cannot call it a nightmare, for I was quite conscious of being asleep.
I saw, or thought I saw, the room and its furniture just as I had seen them last, except that it was very dark.
And then I saw something moving round the foot of the bed.
A figure whose face and form I could not see, save only two dull points of red.
Like the empress of a fire as it dies.
It approached slowly, ever closer.
In the last moment, before it reached me, I seemed to hear a voice coming not from my visitor, but from far, far away.
Sweetly and tenderly, but with terrible urgency.
[00:20:38] Speaker I: It whispered, your mother warns you to be aware of the assassin.
[00:20:47] Speaker G: But the glowing coals were already inches from my face. And suddenly I felt a stinging pain. As if two large needles started an inch or two apart deep into my breast.
I tried to scream, but found I couldn't breathe.
[00:21:14] Speaker D: You Sanzo.
[00:21:32] Speaker I: Every night for three whole weeks. For all I'm glorious from. Accompanied by an increasing languor, by exhaustion.
[00:21:44] Speaker E: Doctor, she complains more and more of suffocation.
[00:21:47] Speaker I: And her colour I can see for myself. Fair Lauriston. And this sensation of needles you mentioned. Froline. Where exactly?
[00:21:59] Speaker G: Here, doctor. Over the heart.
[00:22:02] Speaker I: You're rather young for angina, surely.
[00:22:08] Speaker E: What is it?
[00:22:10] Speaker I: The scars.
Two tiny white scars.
[00:22:16] Speaker E: How could she suffer so from those? They could be no more than insect bites.
[00:22:21] Speaker I: Laura Sterrow, do you know that stories. Myths, you would say. Tales that they tell here in our black forest.
[00:22:31] Speaker E: Tales of disease.
[00:22:33] Speaker I: Of those who bring it.
Proline, after those needles, as you call them, is there any other sensation?
[00:22:45] Speaker G: It is a little like bathing.
[00:22:49] Speaker I: I do not understand.
[00:22:51] Speaker G: It's like.
You know the pleasant, cold thrill you feel when you swim upstream against the current of the river.
And in the heart of that cold, warm lips are kissing me.
[00:23:08] Speaker I: Yes.
[00:23:09] Speaker G: I sometimes wish I never had to wake up.
[00:23:14] Speaker I: Warline. Thrawline, you must not feel so. You must resist.
To love your destroyer is to be lost.
[00:23:25] Speaker G: My destroyer?
[00:23:27] Speaker E: Dr. Warren, what are you saying?
[00:23:29] Speaker I: I do not know how you will believe me, but you must.
Your daughter is.
[00:23:38] Speaker E: My God.
[00:23:39] Speaker F: Forgive my haste, old friend, but I have no time for niceties. I have ridden through the night lest she escaped me.
You're not alone, Spielstorf.
[00:23:50] Speaker E: We did not expect you so suddenly.
[00:23:54] Speaker F: I have not one moment to lose.
[00:23:56] Speaker E: May I present Dr. Walman? General Spielstoff.
[00:24:00] Speaker I: General.
[00:24:01] Speaker F: A doctor.
[00:24:02] Speaker E: My daughter Margaret.
[00:24:03] Speaker G: Welcome, sir.
[00:24:05] Speaker F: My dear father.
My child.
You are ill?
[00:24:13] Speaker G: Well enough to be thankful. You are here at last, general.
[00:24:19] Speaker F: She is so like my Elizabeth.
Even to her palace.
God send her a better deliverance.
[00:24:31] Speaker G: We were all so grieved.
[00:24:32] Speaker F: I will grieve for my daughter, Frauline.
[00:24:35] Speaker E: Oh, I will grieve when I have.
[00:24:39] Speaker F: First had vengeance on the devil who killed her. Killed her as surely as a dagger to the heart.
Listen and you will hear how my blindness, my folly, brought my darling to the grave. You too, doctor. Hear me. Hear how little your science knows of things that walk the night.
[00:25:06] Speaker I: I am listening.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: So.
[00:25:13] Speaker F: Early this summer, my dear Elizabeth and I attended a magnificent celebration at a neighbour's castle. A masked ball.
Oh, masked indeed. Oh, yes. It was when the fireworks were ended and the dancing began.
I realized that a young lady and her chaperone, masked and richly dressed, had been following my daughter with extraordinary interest.
Suddenly, the older woman was beside me.
[00:25:53] Speaker H: General Spielstorf. I believe.
[00:25:58] Speaker F: You have the advantage of me, madame.
[00:26:01] Speaker H: Do you not know who I am?
[00:26:04] Speaker F: If madame would remove her no.
[00:26:08] Speaker H: No, I must not. Though we are older and better friends. Then perhaps you suspect Friedrich?
[00:26:18] Speaker F: Madame, you embarrass me. If you would but say soon, Friedrich.
[00:26:23] Speaker H: Soon you will know everything. But for a brief time, I must implore your aid as an old friend whose honor will ask no more.
[00:26:34] Speaker F: Why? How may I?
I know not what to say. Mother.
[00:26:40] Speaker H: I have this moment received news that reached me like a thunderbolt. I must leave at once on a journey of life and death in which to lose an hour is to lose all. My poor ward there cannot come with me. She is still delicate from an accident. I plead with you. I beg you, take my poor Mirkala under your protection. I know she will be safe for the brief month I shall be absent o consent and save a desperate woman.
[00:27:14] Speaker F: Madame, with the best will in the world. How can I? I do not know your ward at all.
[00:27:23] Speaker H: She is Mirkala, Countess of Kartenstein, a name to honor any house. Oh, look, Friedrich. See how she and your daughter are friends already.
[00:27:38] Speaker G: Look, look.
[00:27:39] Speaker H: Mirkala takes her hand and your daughter looks.
[00:27:46] Speaker D: Braided.
[00:27:48] Speaker F: I turned to look, and it was true.
My daughter was entranced by her new companion.
I turned back and amid the swirling dances, my masked interrogator was gone.
The next moment, my darling daughter came to me, innocent as a fawn, pleading with me to invite Mirkala home.
I weakened. I did.
[00:28:25] Speaker E: Karnstein.
Karnstein. There is a ruined chapel of the Karnsteins here in the forest. But the last member of the family died 200 years ago.
[00:28:41] Speaker F: No, she was only buried.
[00:28:44] Speaker E: Spearsdorf.
What are you saying?
[00:28:47] Speaker I: Hell, Oriston.
I think he is saying that I was trying to tell you just now.
You claim, general, that your daughter was murdered.
[00:28:57] Speaker F: Within three weeks, my elizabeth sank and died. Every morning she was paler, weaker and more bloodless.
She suffocated slowly and whispered of terrible dreams.
Mirkala was always by her side, so loving.
[00:29:25] Speaker I: And on her breast, or perhaps her throat, two tiny scars, like the scratches of a pin.
[00:29:33] Speaker F: You?
No.
[00:29:36] Speaker I: You believe your friends, general.
Your friends believe now, too, don't you? Hail Loriston.
[00:29:45] Speaker G: Me a Carla.
[00:29:52] Speaker E: Carmila.
General, we have a house guest. Maiden Carmila.
She was left behind with us by an unknown lady on a desperate journey.
General, look at my daughter.
[00:30:12] Speaker F: God in heaven, she is here.
The devil I hunt is here. Where? Show me.
[00:30:23] Speaker E: Where is she at this hour? She keeps to her room.
Carmela rises late, general.
[00:30:34] Speaker I: Do you have what we will need?
[00:30:38] Speaker F: It is with me always. Since.
[00:30:43] Speaker E: Frederick. I will go with you.
[00:30:45] Speaker F: No, David, no. I will go alone. But I must be my hand. David.
Your daughter is still alive.
[00:31:16] Speaker G: Perhaps Carmilla saw the general arrive.
Perhaps some instinct of her kind had warned her.
But General Spielsdorf found an empty room, cold, as though it had never been inhabited.
Of course, it never really had.
On moonlit nights, I walk where we walked together.
[00:31:48] Speaker D: Margaret.
Margaret.
[00:31:57] Speaker G: God forgive me, I miss her.
And I almost smile in my mirror to see that the scars do not heal.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: That was Carmilla from nightfall here on the mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Once again, I'm Eric.
[00:32:26] Speaker E: I'm Tim.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: And I'm Joshua.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: Tim selected that one for us as we continue our monsters on the air this October leading up to Halloween. And it's about time we got a vampire in and these classic monsters going back a few weeks ago. Nice job, Tim. This is a classic monster. This isn't a revenant you may have heard of Vampire. Vampire.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: Very popular. Sort of.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: I get really confused by the Carmilla story that I've heard. Like, I know we did one on this podcast, remind me of the Lucille Fletcher one. Is there anything that would trigger for me? Was that the one where she's playing piano?
[00:33:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: And it's updated to New York in what was contemporary period.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:33:14] Speaker B: Radio show was broadcast.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: That's right. Okay. And I love that one.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: And she takes a lot of liberties. I don't remember exactly what they were. I didn't re listen to it for this podcast, unfortunately. But she does not adhere too closely to the original novel, but she justifies that choice by updating it.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: And Carmilla is often given credit to Bram Stoker's inspiration for Dracula.
[00:33:39] Speaker C: A lot of similarities that would be really weird if he was not directly drawing something from that.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: And even earlier was John Pallidori's story the Vampire, which many people credit as the first one. That really took a lot of disparate folklore and pulled it together in something recognizable as a literary hole.
[00:34:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:34:01] Speaker I: Sorry.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: Right in the literary hole.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Twelve years old.
Yeah. So I love this story. You know how much I love Dracula. You guys know how much I love the story, and there's a lot of versions of it I love none better than Legosi's. But I will tell you the thing that always scares me the most is the lady in white leading the children to their deaths in the Dracula story. And feeding on children and seeing her walking through the graveyard and luring them as a mother type figure, and they trust her. And it scares the bleep out of me and Carmilla. I don't know what it is about this, but I find Carmilla the vampire more terrifying than Dracula the vampire. And I think it's because of how every adaptation I've ever seen is how Carmilla infests you with friendship and trust, and that trust being broken and always ending up with people that just really need a friend, just really want. They're lonely and they need someone. And I find that much like the lady in white leading the Children in Dracula, that trusting factor, I find it even more harrowing to listen to. So, that being said, I love this story as far as this version goes. Gentlemen, we are four for four in my book, in this monster month of great Halloween stories. I've loved all four of these monsters in the air that were whatever we're calling this month, and it's nightfall. And, boy, if anything's going to screw this up, it's going to be nightfall to do something really weird or play something weird. And I thought the performances were terrifying and great and albeit a little slow. I just thought it was a great horror story. And I love at the end that she just disappears. I'm just jumping to the end. I love that ending. Like, oh, she could be in my house right now.
She could be anywhere. Don't trust anybody. Shut the door. That's what a good scary story should do to you.
[00:36:20] Speaker C: And that twist of, like, I kind of hope she's alive.
[00:36:23] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Kind of rooting for her because her mother is not a gem. If it is her mother, if it's.
[00:36:29] Speaker C: Not a weird, mysterious relationship with that lady who might be her mother.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: That's one of the most compelling aspects of the Carmilla story, is exactly how that relationship shakes out. Is Carmilla in charge? Is that Carmilla's lady actually trying really.
[00:36:47] Speaker C: Hard to get rid of Carmilla?
[00:36:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Or is that really Carmilla's mother, the cuckoo? Right. Putting her child in somebody else's nest that they will feed her.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: It's alluded to, and I think it's in the original novella that she's very old. She's been around for centuries.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: They gloss over that part of it in this adaptation, which is a little confusing.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: She says, I think I've been hurt, but that was a long time ago. That's the only allusion to it.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And the novella leaves a lot of unanswered questions as well. So I think it's justifiable to leave a lot of question marks and mystery in an adaptation. It's very much in keeping with the original story.
I myself thought the ending was rushed and not justified by the rest of the script, but it might have been that I just came off rereading Carmilla, so I had that really strong in my head. But I'm not super attached to Carmilla as a piece of fiction. I admire many aspects of it, so it's not a purist in me who says, oh, it should have been like the book. I just feel like the adaptation focused so much on Margaret's coldness, as the governess commented on, and ascribed it to her being English, which I thought was funny, from the french governess, and she kept herself at arm's distance from her. And the only really full scene that we get between Margaret and Carmilla is Carmilla's disdain at the funeral procession. And during that entire scene, there's no closeness between them.
Again, Margaret is put off by her attitude toward the funeral procession, and then she has scary dreams, and then Carmilla's gone, and then she misses her. Well, yeah, it felt like they went, oh, people know the story, so they can just put this ending on it. Having not earned it as a standalone.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: I didn't hold it to any standard because I was so familiar with that.
[00:38:52] Speaker C: There was a particular thematic line that I was really enjoying.
[00:38:56] Speaker E: That.
[00:38:56] Speaker C: For me, all those things that you are right to create a size worked in service of this thematic take on.
Early on in listening, I always have a loosey goosey theory of horror. Horror is when you wander away from the fire and go into the woods at night, even in a broad metaphorical sense, it's when you go too far, literally or metaphorically, you break away from the norm. And this story, as I was enjoying it, is about someone who is the exact opposite. This is someone who is super isolated. And what she really needs is to get out somewhere, go somewhere and find help. And so this abruptness of the ending, it worked, because this is all over. As soon as someone comes to help her. That's all she needed was someone genuinely interested in her well being, that she is, even at the end, isolated. That is who she is, which is, as you said, she's keeping people at arm's length. And what the maid says to her of read modern books. Living is for servants. That's what servants do for you, is they live your life for you.
[00:40:02] Speaker A: Right?
[00:40:02] Speaker C: So all those elements, you said, they didn't bother me because of that. They were part of that narrative, which I was enjoying.
[00:40:07] Speaker B: But you're right, there were a couple really odd changes from the book that made me wonder if there was some canadian reason that names were changed, because in Carmilla, her name is Laura and it was changed to Margaret.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: A good canadian name.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Margaret. Yeah. It made me think, was the CBC just playing some other radio serial called Laura or something at the time that sometimes I know it's just as small as that can be, like, oh, that'll confuse people. It just seemed like a weird change, and it threw me off because I had just read the book and I kept going, Margaret, and it's insignificant. I don't think there's any great significance in the name Laura, but it just seemed random. Or someone named Laura made fun of them in school when they were little and they were like, no, I need to change that name.
[00:40:52] Speaker C: The way this actress Laura, I think.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: It'S frequently in adaptations that will happen where, oh, if we can change the name, let's do so because of something that gets lost. And I think you're absolutely right. There might have been some kind of Laura thing going.
[00:41:08] Speaker F: The peak.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Right. Soap opera time could have been true. It could have been, tell Laura I love her. The song. No, I doubt it, but I think I've seen that a lot, though. Joshua, you're right. You're like, oh, guy's name is Adolf. We can't have, like, who knows why?
I will say this. One of the things I've started to realize over the last few years, boy, adaptations are hard to win over. A fan of the original, it's so.
[00:41:40] Speaker C: Hard, what they want so bad, they.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Will not accept it, and they won't accept it. And then you add to it, you got to do it in 30 minutes. It's quite the herculean task to not only make everybody happy and go, oh, I love that story, and I like what you did with it, but also, you did it in a half hour. That was impressive.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Here's my diagnosis. I think these guys were too big of fans of the novel who did this and brought in a lot of other readings to it and assumed knowledge that I don't think every listener would have.
Carmilla has become incredibly famous for this depiction of a lesbian romance. Right. And that's where I think that ending comes from, is they just went, oh, of course, everyone understands that. So we're going to put this relational aspect at the end without ever actually depicting it short. The only thing they described was the governess saying, oh, it's so beautiful. The way she's always holding your hand and she's always brushing your hair. But in that context, it seems sisterly or sisterly or an infatuation. It seems unwanted.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: The way it's played and written, for.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: Me, the relationship doesn't matter what level it's at, be it sisterly or otherwise. It's all about trust being broken. I don't care how much they explore. Well, you know, they're actually lovers. I don't really care. What I care about is they are connected. She's connected to her and killing her.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Friends, lovers, sisters.
There's a lot of trust being broken in the real story. And I just wish this story had depicted more of the trust, more of the strength of their relationship, because in the book, she describes being attracted and repulsed by her, and I felt we got some mild in between. In this version, you get a lot.
[00:43:42] Speaker C: Of Margaret's need, but you don't see as much of Carmilla fulfilling it.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: Yes. And so that's why those end beats rang hollow to me.
I personally would have preferred to have the general go upstairs and we, as the listeners, stay downstairs with Margaret and hear the shrieks of Carmilla as he actually goes up there and kills her. And then I think we could have had more ambivalence. I think in that moment, her regret or horror, we would have felt it as listeners. The fact that she escaped seemed like a fan thing. We've decided we really like Carmilla, and so we're going to rewrite this, which is totally justified. I think in an adaptation, you can rewrite and do whatever. Just make sure the script supports your reimagining.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: I like that she escaped. I like that open endedness. It leads to, like I said, and she's still out there. To me, the claw is still on the door.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: It's that old b movie, the end question.
[00:44:50] Speaker A: Right? Exactly. But here's what I would have added. This is the only caveat that the general goes up, or whatever he is general. Right. And he goes upstairs. All right, I'm going to kill her. And I'm with you. And you hear the shrieking, but. Of the general as she kills him, and they go into the room to see his dead body and she's gone. That would have been, to me, a cool way to have that end and have her live on.
[00:45:16] Speaker C: I like it as is, because it implies not only is Carmella still out there, she's still being.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:45:23] Speaker C: She's still being raced around the country, going too fast in a cart by her mother.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:45:30] Speaker C: In some ways, nothing has changed. From the beginning of the story, you.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: Could hear that story the way it is, and say the first time you heard it?
Well, she's been alive forever. This could be 1850. Who cares? She could still be alive now, so consequently, she could be outside my door. I guess I'm thinking of it in your room.
[00:45:50] Speaker C: Thinking, like, I left no friends.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: Right.
I'm thinking more in the context of telling this to an eight year old, I guess.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: I don't think this is a story for eight year olds.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: Oh, hell, yes, it is. That's how you keep them inside, right?
[00:46:05] Speaker C: When they say, like, I'm lonely, guess what?
[00:46:08] Speaker A: I have a story about loneliness that'll make you.
[00:46:11] Speaker C: You'll be glad to have no friends.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:46:14] Speaker B: A voracious female vampire who has no interest in consent.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: So, bottom line, Johnny, don't trust anybody. Good night.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: This story does an interesting thing with a very mysterious line from the novella, and that is when Margaret, in his version, it's Laura.
[00:46:37] Speaker C: I don't know why that bothers me.
[00:46:39] Speaker B: Is having the dream, which is one of the areas of the novel where people point to very explicitly erotic, as described. They soften the eroticism. They also combine two different dreams. But there's that moment when the voice from far away warns her and says, your mother warns you to be aware of the assassin in the novel that's not gendered in any way. And they made the choice to make it a man. And I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be the general's voice or her father's voice, but it was fun because the fact that it was a male made this already confusing, inscrutable line even more so, because in the book, the translating, that depends on so many different things. Who's the mother? Is Carmilla the mother? She's the mother of vampires. She's creating them. Is it the old lady in black? Is it Margaret's mother from the dead? Is the assassin Carmilla?
[00:47:40] Speaker C: That is how I interpreted it, yes.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: But in the book, they play with it a lot, because in the book, accompanied with that line and part of her dream, which they skipped, possibly because of the way they changed the ending, she sees a vision of Carmilla drenched from head to toe in blood, which ends up being a definite red herring. Where you go, that warning, is to save Carmilla. But again, it's another moment that this adaptation skips over that could have shown Margaret's concern and connection to Carmilla.
I feel like I've been a little hard on that ending, and it's just the ending. The production has so many great aspects. We often talk about Nightfall's music. This uses largely appropriate music.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:48:27] Speaker B: Some orchestral.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: It's my next thing I was going to say. Way to go, nightfall. Way to not screw up the music bed. I thought it was great.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Yeah. They incorporate a couple of, I think, the creepiest Carmilla lines from the actual novel. And the one I love is, as I draw near to you, you, in your turn, will draw near to others and learn the rapture of that cruelty, which is yet love. It's like that is a red flag from friend, lover, anyone.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: That's the first thing Tim ever said to me.
Stand by.
This is a slow burn of getting me, isn't it?
[00:49:12] Speaker C: Someday you'll is. They made the choice, very consciously that Margaret Laura speaks in sort of a young girl voice. And as soon as Carmilla opened her mouth, I'm like, that is not a girl.
She has a very adult voice.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:36] Speaker B: To me, I thought it was a really clever way of hinting at her age, like hundreds of years now she just sounds like a 30 year old woman.
[00:49:45] Speaker C: I know. So old.
[00:49:48] Speaker B: And speaking of the youthful quality of Margaret's voice, that her performance, I thought, particularly in her narrations, it was just so compelling.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: It was exactly soft.
[00:50:01] Speaker B: She delivered her lines almost sleepily, which helped to support this entire dreamlike, fairy tale quality of the entire story. And the word that came to me was languid, which is a word that is used probably 56 times in Carmilla.
[00:50:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: It's a way that they describe Carmilla herself. So it was a significant word to take from the novel and translate it into audio.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: Now you're heading down the highway of why I love this. You're saying all the things now that.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: Made me started with my criticism, so I just wanted to make sure I got the compliments in there, too. And they moved the story from Austria, which is the novella, to the Black Forest in Germany, again, which I thought really worked to sort of create this.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: Nothing good happens in Germany.
[00:50:53] Speaker B: Dark fairy tale world. Right. Back to Tim's idea of don't go away from the fire in the woods too far.
[00:51:02] Speaker C: Yes, they did start by going from London to the darker forest, darkest of forests.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: I love her Carmilla's venom at that funeral procession.
[00:51:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Particularly because the assumption is that's her victim.
[00:51:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: So she's just, like, spitting on the grave of the person she killed.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: Well, because she's hungry.
[00:51:25] Speaker B: Or maybe there's a translation where the lady in black drops her off so she can go around without having to deal with her child and go eat everybody.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:35] Speaker B: When you drop your kid off with a babysitter. I just want to go to a restaurant once uninterrupted.
[00:51:42] Speaker C: It plays a little too with that classism of your servants live for you of like, these are not important people. This was a shepherd lady.
[00:51:50] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. They're very insignificant.
[00:51:52] Speaker C: This is not noble like you and me.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: Just to start the voting. Like I said, we're four for four this month. I think this stands the test of time. This is one of the better nightfalls I've heard. I love the production values. I love the performances. I love the pace. I love the adaptation of it. I like all of it. It was scary. It was great for Halloween. Classic. No, just because it's an old story that I've heard so many times before. I like what they did with it, but this was fantastic. I enjoyed it a lot, and I think that it does stand the test of time for sure.
[00:52:28] Speaker C: I very much agree with you very much. Stand the test of time. I like this adaptation inasmuch as, like you were saying, there's a lot of hard decisions that go in adapting, and this made a lot of strong decisions. Even if to grant Joshua some of the critiques, they didn't all score. They made a lot of strong choices, which is what I like. Wouldn't call it a classic either, but it played to, I think, some nightfall strengths of their. Very good producers of audio drama, and they left all the things about nightfall that does not work as well for our ears behind and liked it very much.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: I have already shared my complaints with this. I think it had a really strong start. It was on its way into classic nightfall territory. I feel like it stumbled too much at the end. It definitely stands the test of time. It's a strong nightfall production. I was disappointed by the ending and had that armchair writer who wanted to go in there and do a pass through on that script, but that's impossible since it's already been aired. And obnoxious, I will just say, definitely stand the test of time.
And I must share one other bit of old time radio related Carmilla trivia with you two gentlemen. They don't name him in this adaptation, but in the novel it has that classic 19th century framing device that the narration comes from a doctor who has been treating Laura after the fact and helping her process these supernatural occurrences. So this doctor is often credited as being one of the first supernatural specialists in literature, one of the very earliest. And his name is Dr. Aeselius, who is also the name of the occult specialist in the shadow people.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: From hall of yes, yes.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Which was an intentional nod, apparently, to.
[00:54:31] Speaker A: Carmilla, push those glasses tight to your forehead.
[00:54:35] Speaker C: That was a good, gratifying anecdote.
[00:54:37] Speaker A: Gratifying, nerdy thing.
[00:54:39] Speaker B: You're welcome. Happy Halloween.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: Tim, tell him stuff.
[00:54:43] Speaker C: Please go visit ghoulishdelights.com. That is the home of this podcast. We have a bunch of episodes there. You can let us know by commenting, by voting in polls what you thought of these episodes. We do look, and it's fascinating. There's a wide variety of opinions all the time. Most of the time, there are some episodes that everyone's like, this. This is really great. We all agree this is great, great episode. And there's some that people say, this is terrible. We all agree this is terrible.
But there are a lot of others that there's a variety of. This is great. This is.
[00:55:11] Speaker B: Walk us through all 310 episodes and what the reactions were to.
[00:55:16] Speaker C: Okay, so cypress Canyon, episode one.
Well, first we all thought it was really great.
Also, you can link to our social media pages, find what we're doing on Facebook. That's cool. And you can go to our threatless store to get some swag. And you can go to our Patreon page.
[00:55:38] Speaker B: Yes, go to patreon.com. Slash them. Become a patron, a member of the mysterious old radio listening society.
[00:55:44] Speaker C: Just do it.
[00:55:45] Speaker B: I know you want to. We have so many great perks. We have monthly zoom happy hours with our patrons. We do book clubs with our patrons. We have all kinds of bonus podcasts. We do a podcast called besides the mysterious old radio, where we do sort of flip side episodes that relate to an episode of the main podcast. We do secrets of the mysterious old radio, which is some kind of weird, off the wall stuff. And we also do cliffhangers of doom. And right now we are working our way through Frankenstein. So all you have to do is become a patron, and you can have access to this increasingly large backlog of bonus podcasts. I mean, you could be a jerk, listen to it all, and then cancel like some people do.
But we're building such a backlog that will take you so long to get through it that we'll get a lot of your money in the so jokes.
[00:56:41] Speaker A: On you, mysterious old radio listening society. Society, in addition to being a podcast, is also a theater company that performs live on stage adaptations of classic radio dramas and audio dramas, and also a lot of our own original work, audio staged dramas. If you'd like to see us performing live, all you have to do is go to ghoulishtolights.com or mysteriousholdradiolistingsociety.com. And there you will see where we're performing this month and what we're performing, what their venue is and how to get tickets and what shows we're putting up. So, yeah, we've been doing that for a long time. And if you can't make it because you're not in that particular area that we're performing, then you become a patreon. Part of that package, part of that deal is that we film those shows and you get to watch them in the comfort of your own home. But if you are in the area, you should come see us because we'd love to meet you. And you should have dinner and go see a show. Get out of your house now and then.
[00:57:45] Speaker C: Otherwise some little cold little girl will come find you and become your friend.
[00:57:52] Speaker B: Uncalled for.
[00:57:53] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:57:55] Speaker C: I feel like I need to up our salesmanship because that's the more supernatural threat.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: Yeah, let's do it. So what's coming up next?
[00:58:02] Speaker B: Next is my pick. And we'll be listening to the cabin from Gunsmoke. Until then.
[00:58:15] Speaker F: There was an old man I knew of, a doctor, Hiserius. I'd heard that he knew quite good deal about the supposed supernatural manifestations which had taken place in the world.
I went to him to see if he knew anything that might explain the.
[00:58:29] Speaker I: Events of the story Elaine had told us.
