Episode 13: Murder Castle

[00:00:16] Speaker A: The mysterious old radio listening society podcast. Welcome to the Mysterious Old Radio Listening Society, a podcast dedicated to suspense and horror. Welcome to more stories from the Golden Age of Radio. I'm Eric. [00:00:34] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:00:34] Speaker C: I'm Joshua. We love scary old time radio stories. There's nothing quite like a disembodied voice telling a genuinely disturbing tale. But maybe that's just us. Maybe these stories don't actually hold up after all this time. So we're revisiting these old shows to put the terror on trial. Do they still work in the 21st century? Or are we being deceived by nostalgia? Are these stories blood chilling or butt numbing? [00:00:58] Speaker A: For for tonight's episode, I've chosen Murder Castle from Lights Out. This episode is based on the real life case of H.H. holmes, Chicago's notorious serial killer. He's one of the first documented serial killers. In 1893, Holmes opened a hotel which he had designed and built for himself specifically with murder in mind. While he confessed to 27 murders, of which nine were confirmed, his actual body count could be upwards to 200. He brought an unknown number of his victims to his hotel. Ironically, his real name was Herman Webster Mudgett. Now, we've really never mentioned our last names on this podcast before, but mine is Webster. So now you know. But he is of no relation. [00:01:41] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure we could spend all night sharing nerdy facts about Lights Out. For example, Lights out was one of the earliest radio horror programs, predating suspense and inner sanctum. Lights out was created by Willis Cooper in 1933 and then eventually taken over by Arch Oblor. This episode is an Ober episode, although in later years Lights out would be closely associated with Ober. He was always quick to credit Cooper as the series creator and spoke highly of the older author, calling him the unsung pioneer of radio dramatic techniques and the first person Ober knew of who understood that radio drama could be an art form. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Hear, hear. This episode aired in 1943. It stars Joseph Kearns, who is Mr. Wilson, the crabby next door neighbor from the Dennis the Menace TV show and also one of my favorite radio actors of all time, Mercedes McCambridge. [00:02:34] Speaker C: Forget the petty distractions around you. Forget what you think you know. Forget everything but what you hear. Right now it's late at night and a chill has set in. You're alone and the only light you see is coming from an antique radio. Listen to the sounds coming from the speaker, listen to the music and listen to the voices. [00:02:59] Speaker D: I tell you, Captain, it don't make sense. We picked her up walking down the street saying the same thing over and over again. But she's as poofy as they come, I tell you. Listen to her yourself. [00:03:11] Speaker E: Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. [00:03:14] Speaker D: Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Yeah, listen to her, Captain. Over and over again. Such a young and pretty girl. What could have driven her out of her mind like that? I ask you. [00:03:26] Speaker E: Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. [00:03:47] Speaker D: Yes, yes, what is it? [00:03:48] Speaker E: I. I'm looking for a Mr. Henry Stewart, if you please. [00:03:52] Speaker D: Oh. Oh, you mean about the advertisement. [00:03:54] Speaker E: Yes, that's right. I got here as soon as I could. [00:03:57] Speaker D: That's all right, that's all right. As long as you got here, that's all that matters. Come in, come in. [00:04:01] Speaker E: Oh, thank you. [00:04:03] Speaker D: Just put your suitcase down there. It'll be all right. [00:04:07] Speaker E: Thank you. [00:04:08] Speaker D: Now, if you come out this way. [00:04:10] Speaker E: Thank you. [00:04:15] Speaker D: Just step in here, Miss. [00:04:16] Speaker E: Malone. Ella Malone. [00:04:18] Speaker D: Oh, yes, of course, Ms. Malone. Now then, you'll have a chair, please. [00:04:23] Speaker E: Thank you. [00:04:25] Speaker D: Ah, there we are. Now then, Ms. Malone. To be perfectly frank with you, I wasn't quite expecting you today. [00:04:33] Speaker E: Oh, I'm truly sorry, Mr. Stewart, but you see, I took the wrong train and I. Well, I had the hardest time finding the house. I do hope you'll forgive me. [00:04:42] Speaker D: Of course, of course. Don't give it another thought. Promptness may be a virtue, but we all can't be virtuous, now, can we? Now then, go here in answer to my advertisement. [00:04:54] Speaker E: Yes, sir. [00:04:54] Speaker D: You wrote me. Oh, yes, yes, it was. You're the young lady from. [00:04:58] Speaker E: From Queensville. [00:04:58] Speaker D: Oh, yes, Queensville. You have my letter with you? [00:05:02] Speaker E: Oh, yes, sir. Right here, sir. [00:05:04] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes. Now then, your friends know you came. [00:05:11] Speaker E: Here, of course, there's no one very much interested, Mr. Stuart. [00:05:14] Speaker D: Oh. Oh, come now. A pretty young girl like you, no young beaux and so on, so on. [00:05:20] Speaker E: No, sir. There's no one. I mean, sir, you can depend on me to give all my attention to my work. [00:05:25] Speaker D: Very commendable. Very commendable indeed. My work, as I wrote you, is entirely confidential. My philanthropies are to a great extent entirely sub rosa. No fuss, no ferries. You understand what I mean? [00:05:37] Speaker E: Oh, yes, sir. [00:05:38] Speaker D: As my secretary, my affairs will be entirely in your hands. My checking account, my finances and so on, so on. Entirely in your care. [00:05:45] Speaker E: I understand, sir. [00:05:47] Speaker D: It's quite a responsibility. And you're quite a young woman. And as I wrote to the bank. [00:05:53] Speaker E: Oh, yes, sir, I understand. The bond. I bought the money for it. $300. I've got it right here, sir. [00:05:59] Speaker D: Oh, fine. [00:06:00] Speaker C: Fine. [00:06:00] Speaker D: That's very business like. Yes, indeed. I'll give you a receipt and there will be. [00:06:05] Speaker E: Mr. Stewart. [00:06:06] Speaker D: Yes? Oh, my pen. [00:06:07] Speaker C: Oh. [00:06:08] Speaker D: Oh, yes. Here we are. [00:06:09] Speaker E: My money. Will I get it back from the bank anytime I leave your employ? I mean, when you want me to. [00:06:17] Speaker D: Oh, yes, of course, of course. Now then, here we are. Received of Ms. Nelly Malone. [00:06:24] Speaker E: Ella. [00:06:25] Speaker D: Oh, yes, of course. Ella. Memory isn't quite what it used to be. That's why I need a good secretary. [00:06:30] Speaker E: I'm very good at remembering things. [00:06:32] Speaker D: Oh, you are, you are. Now then, we are. Guess this receipt is in good order. Received of Ms. Ella Malone. $300 to be deposited with the Merchants bank as surety bond and to be returned to said Ella Malone upon request. There's my signature. How then? How's that? [00:06:51] Speaker E: I'm sure that'll do. Very well, sir. [00:06:54] Speaker D: Now then, you have got my receipt. [00:06:59] Speaker E: But I. Oh, I beg your pardon. [00:07:02] Speaker D: Not at all, not at all. [00:07:04] Speaker E: Right here. I am sorry. [00:07:06] Speaker D: Oh, well, I understand the excitement of your trip. [00:07:09] Speaker E: Here it is, Mr. Stewart. You see, I had it already in an envelope. Now, if you're opening. [00:07:13] Speaker D: Oh, no, no, not at all, not at all. Ben can do that when I send it to them in the morning. Now, just put your purse down there and I'll show you through your new home. [00:07:21] Speaker E: Yes, Mr. Stewart. [00:07:22] Speaker D: We'll go right up these stairs. [00:07:24] Speaker E: Yes. [00:07:29] Speaker D: Oh, yes. You find I have quite a place here. Three stories high and every inch of it my own design. [00:07:36] Speaker E: Rather dark. Oh. [00:07:38] Speaker D: Oh, careful now, careful. [00:07:40] Speaker E: I'm all right. [00:07:41] Speaker D: Mustn't hurt yourself. Hardly the way to start a new job. Now then, here we are. Got a nice room for you. Very nice. Fact of the matter is you can choose any room on this floor. [00:07:55] Speaker E: But, Mr. Stewart, your daughters. [00:07:58] Speaker D: Daughters? [00:07:59] Speaker E: Yes. Won't they object, you said, Ann. [00:08:01] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, my daughters. I did write to you about them, didn't I? [00:08:06] Speaker E: Yes, you did. [00:08:07] Speaker D: Well, never mind about them. They're upstairs studying. Now, right here, I suggest that you take this room at least for tonight. [00:08:16] Speaker E: Whatever you say, Mrs. Hughes. [00:08:17] Speaker D: Set the light on. Here we are. Nice, isn't it? [00:08:23] Speaker E: Never had such a large room. If you've got one a little smaller. [00:08:26] Speaker D: On the contrary, my dear Miss Malone. You'll find this one small enough. Perhaps a little too small. Yes, indeed, entirely too small. [00:08:32] Speaker E: But, Mr. Stewart. Locking the door. Mr. Stewart, why did you. Mr. Stewart, why did YOU lock the door? Mr. Stewart? Mr. Stewart, why did YOU shut me in here? Mr. Stewart, please. Please answer me. Mrs. Stewart, please let me out of here. [00:08:52] Speaker D: Mrs. Jordan, please. [00:08:53] Speaker E: Let me out of here. [00:08:55] Speaker D: It's getting dark in here. Let me out. Yes, yes, Ms. Nord. There's no doubt in my mind at all that you're the very person I want to employ as my housekeeper. [00:09:14] Speaker E: I'm very glad to hear that, Mr. Stewart. [00:09:16] Speaker D: Of course, the matter of being housekeeper of a place as large as mine calls for definite qualities. You understand, of course. [00:09:22] Speaker E: I always do my best, sir. [00:09:23] Speaker D: Well, one certainly can't ask for more than that. No, indeed. [00:09:26] Speaker E: Your wife. Maybe she'd like to talk to My wife? [00:09:30] Speaker D: Oh, yes, of course. I wrote you about my wife, didn't I? [00:09:33] Speaker E: Yes, sir. [00:09:34] Speaker D: Well, my wife is out shopping. As soon as she returns, you will meet her. I'm sure she'll find your recommendations as satisfactory as I did. [00:09:42] Speaker E: Make me very happy. I've always wanted to work in a fine harbor. [00:09:46] Speaker D: Now, about money. [00:09:48] Speaker E: Oh, any salary you want to pay me, Mr. Judy. It's all right. I just want a chance to show you how good I can do your work. [00:09:54] Speaker D: Very commendable. Yes, indeed, very commendable. But we must agree on a salary. I'm the sort of man who has respect for money. And expects a similar respect in others. [00:10:03] Speaker E: We send. [00:10:04] Speaker D: Speaking of money, you'll be wanting to open a new bank account, I suppose. [00:10:08] Speaker E: Bank account? [00:10:08] Speaker D: Yes, it's my principle that everyone employed by me should have a savings account. Bill's character. I'll open an account for you in the morning. You can transfer any other bank account you have back in your hometown up to my bank convenience, you know. [00:10:20] Speaker E: Oh, no, I haven't got that. I haven't any money in the bank back home. I. I took it all out. Oh, it wasn't much anyway. What was left of father's insurance money after my mother died. [00:10:32] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes. Well, now then, supposing you leave all your things here and we'll go look over the house. [00:10:39] Speaker E: That would be very nice. [00:10:40] Speaker D: Yeah. Right through this door. [00:10:43] Speaker E: I'd be glad to be working in such a big house. [00:10:45] Speaker D: Right this way. Oh, yes, yes. Quite an establishment here. Designed it all myself. [00:10:51] Speaker E: I Work hard, Mr. Stewart. [00:10:52] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, I'm certain you will. Now then, right down these stairs. I'll show you everything downstairs first. [00:11:01] Speaker E: You have a washing machine, yeah? [00:11:03] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Everything modern. Everything convenient. High, wide basement. There you are. Now, watch yourself. It's just a little dark down here this time of day. [00:11:15] Speaker E: Oh, it is a big basement, all right. But hang up plenty of washing down here. [00:11:19] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, indeed. Now, if you just come this way. [00:11:22] Speaker E: You. You building something down here? [00:11:24] Speaker D: Building? Oh, yes. Yes, indeed. Always building. Always changing. Always remodeling, Changing, changing, change. [00:11:29] Speaker C: My hobby. [00:11:29] Speaker D: Always changing things. [00:11:30] Speaker E: Hard to keep clean. [00:11:31] Speaker D: No, no, don't you worry about that. Everything will be cleaned up in short order. Bags of sand, concrete, concrete mixer. Everything will be out of the way. Won't bother you at all? No, not at all. All right. This way. [00:11:43] Speaker E: You'Re making more room. [00:11:44] Speaker D: Oh, yes. Yes, indeed. With nice, clean concrete floors. Yeah. Look at this one. [00:11:52] Speaker E: Kind of dark. Oh, come on. [00:11:54] Speaker D: Come on. Get closer. All my own work. You see, the floor is still wet. I like concrete, don't you? [00:12:04] Speaker E: It is clean, yes. [00:12:06] Speaker D: Covers everything. You know how deep that concrete is? 3ft deep? Yes, ma'. Am, 3ft deep. And I just poured it an hour before you honored me with your presence. Three feet. That'll make a mighty thick slab of stone, won't it, Miss Nord? Thick enough to cover you. Yes, indeed. A fist at the point of the jaw. Still a most effective soporific. You're quite a light woman, my dear Miss Nord. Up you go. And in you go, face down. What an unusual bed you lie in, Miss Nord. Sinking down and down and down. And the concrete will harden. And I. I guess I will have to get myself a new housekeeper. [00:13:16] Speaker F: Ladies and gentlemen, let's lean back now and relax for a moment. Let's take time out from tonight's amazing lights out story. The story of a strange, mysterious mansion. The one woman who entered those doors and was never seen alive again. Let's turn during this brief intermission to a much more everyday situation and a question that's much easier to answer. An angry girl is storming out of her friend's house. And her friend says, what can be. [00:13:44] Speaker E: Wrong with Lucy these days? Coffee's a bear. And she's losing so much weight, she looks terrible. She's just no fun anymore. Well, you know what that well known nutrition authority says about how improper eating due to wartime living may cause a person become deficient in vitamin B1 and iron. And how you absolutely need enough of them to keep your right weight and energy. I come to think of it, that was Ruth's trouble when she got so unbound. So she took iodized yeast tablets. And you know how grand she looks and feels again now. [00:14:15] Speaker F: Yes, friends, any number of people who adewed a vitamin B1 and iron shortage were losing weight. Losing strength and energy and interest in life tell how ionized yeast tablets help them regain glorious pep and strength and needed pounds. So if you are short, vitamin B1 and iron don't Wait. Go to your druggist this very night and say. [00:14:36] Speaker E: A bottle of iron I yeast tablets, please. [00:14:39] Speaker F: And now back to our lights out. Story of murder cast. [00:15:02] Speaker D: Hello? Hello? Hello. Is this the employment agency? This is Mr. Stewart. Mr. Henry Stewart. I'm interested in employing a nurse for my child. Someone preferably unattached, who can live here with my wife. Myself. [00:15:20] Speaker E: No, no, no. [00:15:21] Speaker D: Just send me their names, addresses and references and so on. I'll send you a check for the services. My address is 424East7. Yes, that's right. Just the names and addresses. Yes, yes, I'll send you a check. Goodbye. Oh, yes, yes, I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll be there. Yes? Yes, what is it? Is. [00:15:47] Speaker E: Is Mr. Stewart in? [00:15:48] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, yes, indeed. Won't you come in? I'm Mr. Stewart. [00:15:54] Speaker E: Thank you. [00:15:56] Speaker D: You're answering in regard to secretarial position. [00:15:59] Speaker E: You wrote me a letter. [00:16:00] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes, yes, indeed. Won't you step in here, please? [00:16:05] Speaker E: Thank you. [00:16:06] Speaker D: Now, you sit there. I'll sit here. We'll get better acquainted. Put your suitcase down there in place or. [00:16:12] Speaker E: Now then. [00:16:12] Speaker D: I'm afraid I didn't quite get your name. [00:16:14] Speaker E: Ray. Betty Ray. You wrote me. [00:16:18] Speaker D: Oh, yes, of course. I remember you distinctly. Now then, you have my letter to you. Just to sort of refresh my memory on the circumstances, don't you know? [00:16:26] Speaker E: Oh, well, I'm sorry, eh? I didn't bring it with me. [00:16:30] Speaker D: Oh, well, then suppose you tell me a little more about yourself than all that's happened. But then, Father. See you off the train, I suppose? [00:16:37] Speaker E: Oh, no, siri. It's the way I wrote you. Mr. Stewart. I. I'm quite alone. [00:16:42] Speaker D: Oh, yes, well, but first there's the matter of the surety bond. I wrote you about that, didn't I? [00:16:49] Speaker E: Yes, yes, you did. [00:16:51] Speaker D: Ah, yes, I felt quite certain of that. [00:16:53] Speaker E: Mr. Stewart, I was wondering. [00:16:55] Speaker D: Yes? [00:16:56] Speaker E: Have you had many secretaries? [00:16:58] Speaker D: Why do you ask that? I want to know why you ask that question. [00:17:01] Speaker E: What happens to them after you hire them? Tell me what happens to them, young woman. [00:17:07] Speaker D: Just who are you? [00:17:08] Speaker E: My name is Betty Malone. [00:17:11] Speaker D: Malone? [00:17:11] Speaker E: Betty Malone. My sister Ella came here a month ago about a job, and I want to know where she is. Do you hear me? I want to know where she is. [00:17:17] Speaker D: I. I don't think I quite know what you're talking about. [00:17:20] Speaker E: Why do you lie to me? Why do you lie to me? She was here. She was. [00:17:23] Speaker D: Oh, then what makes you so sure? A letter. [00:17:25] Speaker E: You wrote her the first one. I waited a whole month and Then I came here, and as soon as I saw you, I thought something was wrong. And now I know. There is my sister Ella. [00:17:34] Speaker D: Where is she? [00:17:35] Speaker E: You've got to tell me. What? [00:17:37] Speaker D: If I tell you again that I don't know what you're talking about, I'll. [00:17:42] Speaker E: Go to the police. They'll make you tell the truth. I know she came here. I know she did. Why do you laugh? Why? [00:17:49] Speaker D: Because you're being a very foolish young lady. Very foolish indeed. There's no need to get excited. Of course, your sister's here and very happy, too. [00:17:56] Speaker E: She. She's here? [00:17:58] Speaker D: Yes. Yes, I'm very happy, too. [00:18:01] Speaker E: So then take me to her. Please take me to her. [00:18:04] Speaker D: All right, all right. No need to get excited. Of course I'll take you to her. I intend to do. All along. I was just having a little joke with you. [00:18:11] Speaker E: Is she all right? Is she? Of course. [00:18:13] Speaker D: Of course. Now then, come right along with me. Come right along with me. Right along with me. [00:18:22] Speaker E: Yes. [00:18:23] Speaker D: Yes, she's right up here. Been with me for over a month. [00:18:26] Speaker E: Why didn't she write? Why didn't you tell me? [00:18:29] Speaker D: Right down this hall, and you can ask her that for yourself. [00:18:33] Speaker E: This isn't a trick, is it? [00:18:35] Speaker D: My dear young lady, you have easily the most suspicious mind of anyone I've ever met. Why, I'm quite a helpless old man. And you always have recourse, as you put it, to the police. Here we are, right in this room. Go right in. [00:18:49] Speaker E: All right. He's locked. [00:18:52] Speaker D: Well, knock on the door and she'll open it for you. [00:18:56] Speaker E: Ella. Ella, it's Betty. Let me in. Darling, it's Betty. [00:19:02] Speaker D: What do you know? She's sleeping. [00:19:04] Speaker E: Ella, please. It's Betty. Your sister. [00:19:05] Speaker D: Betty? Well, now, she certainly is a tight sleeper. [00:19:09] Speaker E: But she can't be sleeping. Open the door. Please. [00:19:10] Speaker D: Open the door. [00:19:11] Speaker E: All right, all right. [00:19:12] Speaker D: No reason to get excited. [00:19:13] Speaker E: Quickly, open the door. [00:19:14] Speaker D: Quickly, now, don't excite yourself needlessly. Well, go ahead. You open the door. [00:19:23] Speaker E: Bella. It's Betty. [00:19:37] Speaker D: Now then, my dear Betty, we understand each other clearly, don't we? Nothing like a complete understanding, now, is there? [00:19:47] Speaker E: Phyllis? Dead. [00:19:49] Speaker D: Oh, it wasn't so difficult. I shut the door, sealed it, and nature took care of the rest. [00:19:56] Speaker E: Dead. [00:19:57] Speaker D: She died quite easily. Much easier than others. [00:20:01] Speaker E: Why? [00:20:02] Speaker D: You mean, why do I do it? It's a very simple explanation, young woman. This is my business. Yes, yes, my business. Some men make their fortunes in stock, some bonds, some in business. And this is my business. [00:20:15] Speaker E: Why? [00:20:16] Speaker D: Why, why? Why is any business conducted? Profit, my dear. [00:20:19] Speaker E: And I've made quite a niche profit. [00:20:21] Speaker D: Oh, yes, I'm a very safe one, too. Yes, and you're the very first to come wandering about looking for one of my customers. The first and I assure you, the last. Oh, yes. 30 women have come in my front door. 31, including you and Ella. Come on along. I'll tell you all about them. You'll find it most instructive. Yes, indeed. Now, come. [00:20:42] Speaker E: Don't. Don't hold my arm. [00:20:45] Speaker D: These collar as they twist and turn. Oh, yes, it's best I hold your arm. Get lost easily around this house. My most interesting house. [00:20:52] Speaker E: Very. [00:20:53] Speaker D: Yes, they were 30 for you. Most interesting array. I used to read the want ads in small town papers. And then I'd write letters. Oh, most interesting letters. I needed a secretary, housekeeper, nurse. Excellent salary. Unusual accommodation. [00:21:06] Speaker E: I knew this had happened. [00:21:07] Speaker D: Indeed. And they brought all their worldly belongings with them. Generally in a suitcase. Little here, little there. Why should it be most profitable? Now, in this room, for example. [00:21:17] Speaker E: No, don't open that door. [00:21:19] Speaker D: No, perhaps it would be better not to. The one in here came to be my housekeeper. Oh, let me see. How long ago was it? Oh, well, no matter. She came as a housekeeper. And after she went into a retirement in that room I found in her suitcase. Such interesting bond. Why, I tell you, my eyes fairly pop right in my head. Oh, yes, it's the uncertainty that makes my little business so very fascinating. [00:21:43] Speaker E: Kill 30 women. [00:21:44] Speaker D: Now, let's go down a little way. Now, down here. Don't make me pull you along. [00:21:47] Speaker E: Killed 30 women. [00:21:48] Speaker D: Wasn't difficult. Most women are such fools. Anxious to believe what they want to believe. [00:21:53] Speaker E: Came here for life and you gave me death. [00:21:55] Speaker D: Ah, you're the smart one. That's why I'm even bothering showing you my work. I never did the others. And showing you around won't do harm. You won't be talking long. 30 women now in this room. Well, let me open and show you. [00:22:09] Speaker E: No, no, don't make me look. No, please don't. No. [00:22:13] Speaker D: Oh, you see, there's no reason for excitement. Just an empty room. That's what she thought when she went in here. Then I pressed this button so. And the floor flopped open as she stood on it. And down she went. Down, down, down. Gets into what, a pit of lime? Oh, yes. I tried out so many different ways of killing them. You wonder why they'll never find me out. Well, I'll tell you why. Because I'm much too smart for all of them. Oh, not perfect crimes. No, nothing infantile. But Just cleverness in using the women I do my business with. And an equal cleverness in doing away with them. Yes, indeed. Now then, suppose I tell you. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Why, they'll never get me delicine. [00:22:58] Speaker E: You had done things in my head. [00:22:59] Speaker D: No corpus delicti. And if there is one, no evidence of violence. Ah, there. That's the secret. [00:23:04] Speaker E: You're very frightened, sister. [00:23:05] Speaker D: Hell of quicklime. There's no corpus delicti after that, I can tell you. Not when you bury them in a slab of concrete. Ah, that's the secret. If I could only have been with you. [00:23:14] Speaker E: It was his. [00:23:15] Speaker D: Now, this room, let me show it to you. I. I think this will be your room, my dear. [00:23:19] Speaker E: Frighten. [00:23:20] Speaker D: See the door? Airtight. Air tight. Yes, indeed. [00:23:22] Speaker E: I'll open it. [00:23:26] Speaker D: The room. Amazing sight, isn't it? No doors, no windows. [00:23:29] Speaker E: I could have helped you, Ellen. [00:23:31] Speaker D: Now, I'll shut you up inside the room. Then I'll close the door and press this button here, like this. You hear that, little one? You hear that? Pumping, pumping, pumping. And guess what is pumping? Air. You hear me pumping the air out of the room? Yes. That's clever, isn't it? You breathe, and soon there'll be nothing there to breathe. And then you'll die. And the police do find your body. No mark of violence. Nothing but asphyxiation. A most mysterious death, they'll say. In time, they'll decide it's all quite natural. Embolism. Heart attack. Oh, they'll think up a fancy name to clear their files, as indeed they always do. [00:24:08] Speaker E: It isn't right for him to listen now. [00:24:10] Speaker D: First, off with the pump. Now, my dear, I think you better step inside quickly now, so I can close the door and go about my other work. Quickly, I tell you. [00:24:17] Speaker E: No, wait. [00:24:18] Speaker C: Wait. [00:24:18] Speaker D: Wait for what? [00:24:19] Speaker E: I want to give you something. [00:24:20] Speaker D: What you give me that doesn't belong to me already. This gun. [00:24:24] Speaker E: Get in there. Get in that room. [00:24:27] Speaker D: Gun? You had a gun in your purse all the time. [00:24:30] Speaker E: My Paris. I brought it for the man who. Get in there. [00:24:34] Speaker D: No, no, no. [00:24:35] Speaker C: What are you doing? [00:24:35] Speaker E: Get in there. I'll press the police. You get in there. I'll kill him. [00:24:37] Speaker D: No, no, don't, don't. [00:24:39] Speaker E: I'm an old harmless man. [00:24:40] Speaker D: I was only fooling. I wouldn't hurt you for the world. [00:24:45] Speaker E: Revenge. Try to revenge, isn't it? Ella? She said to press this button. Ella, The pump. It's running. Ella, listen to it. It's killing him the way he killed you. It's right to revenge, isn't it, little sister? Fight your revenge. Fight to revenge. Fight to revenge. Fight to revenge. Fight to revenge. Fight to revenge. Fight to revenge. [00:25:13] Speaker D: Fight to revenge. The air. It's going out. The air. Shut off that motor out there. You hear me? Shut off that motor. Pumping out the air. Pumping it out. It's a pipe. Air going out. I can't reach the pipe. Shut it off. [00:25:38] Speaker E: You devil out there. [00:25:39] Speaker D: Shut it off. It'll kill me. Kill me. I chased it already. Shut it off. I'll give you anything. Anything you want. Shut up that pumpkin. I can't die. I won't die. I'll tear the walls down. Let me out of here. Here. Man's got to wear the ear. [00:26:07] Speaker E: Let me out. [00:26:09] Speaker D: Let me out. My ear. Tap. Here comes a break in. Close my mouth. My eyes. Breathing air. Give me air. Breath of air. Air. [00:26:39] Speaker E: Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. [00:26:43] Speaker D: Revenge. Revenge. Revenge. Here, listen to her, Captain. [00:26:47] Speaker E: Revenge. [00:26:48] Speaker D: Over and over again. Such a young and pretty girl. What could have driven her out of her mind? Crazy like that? What, I ask you? [00:27:11] Speaker F: Well, Mr. Ober. And I suppose they all. All died happily ever after. You put things so sweetly, Mr. Martin. The dark corners of the human mind are the deepest dark, I believe, of anything in the universe. Speaking of darkness, how would you like to turn back the pages of that nebulous stuff known as time to the. [00:27:33] Speaker D: Sakalion of Tsarist Russia? [00:27:36] Speaker F: You mean right now, Mr. Ober? You know the answer to that as well as I do, Frank. It's always after you've had your say for iron IG's. Remember, friends, if you're deficient in vitamin B1 and iron. If that's why you're so under par in weight and strength and energy, then get ironized yeast tablets right away. Now, of course, a rundown condition may be due to other causes. If in doubt, see your doctor. But if you're Simply short vitamin B1 and iron. Remember, ionized yeast has been so successful in such cases that it's sold on this no risk, money back basis. If you don't begin to eat better to look and feel much stronger, peppier and more alive. The cost of the first bottle will be refunded to you in full by ionized yeast. Fox IY RAWING, N.J. you are listening. [00:28:30] Speaker A: To the mysterious Old Radio Listening Society. A podcast dedicated to suspense and horror from the golden age of radio once again. I am Eric. [00:28:38] Speaker B: I'm Tim. [00:28:39] Speaker C: I'm Joshua. [00:28:40] Speaker A: And that was Lights out and their episode Murder Castle. Which was again, if you missed the beginning, which would Be weird. I don't know, like you could go back and listen beginning. But we were talking about how it was based on the real life case of H.H. holmes, the notorious serial killer from the 1890s in Chicago who killed up to 200 people. So this is my selection and I would rather hear from you guys first because I really love the fact that we don't discuss these at all before we record the podcast. So I have no idea what you guys thought of this episode. None. So, Joshua. [00:29:19] Speaker C: Well, interestingly enough, you chose an episode that I had as a child on cassette tape. It's a lights out cassette and on one side was Murder Castle, on the other side was Revolt of the Worms, which is about giant worms. [00:29:33] Speaker A: This explains a lot. [00:29:36] Speaker C: But I was terrified by Murder Castle. I honestly think for this podcast is the first time I've listened all the way through this as a child. I could not get past the first five or ten minutes. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Really. [00:29:47] Speaker C: It terrified me. And so I would fast forward and listen to Revolt of the Worms over. [00:29:52] Speaker A: And over again, which wasn't terrifying. [00:29:55] Speaker C: Not the same way, because this is so realistic. This is an actual human being murdering women. There's nothing, there's no sci fi element to it. It's just dark. And for some reason that repetitive revenge, revenge, revenge absolutely terrified me as a child. And then when he just starts ruthlessly murdering women, that was it. I had to turn it off. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Well, it's funny because that's my first note is that opening of her, Mercedes McCambridge, the actor doing the revenge, revenge, revenge. Oh man, that is to me just a great way to start this episode. [00:30:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I. This was so fat. I had heard this episode before and it's. It's so fascinating for me of. It's at the same time a very modern sort of scary story of this killer who for no reason picks out victims. There's. There's no sort of karmic justice. There's no. It's just random killing, which I ascribe to very modern sort of horror storytelling. Yet it's also a very classic structure of wandering out into danger and just beat by beat of. You establish this dangerous person, you put someone who is very sympathetic in with this dangerous person, and then you hope for the best. Right. [00:31:18] Speaker A: I will say there was a motivation. Wasn't he taking money out of their bank account? [00:31:22] Speaker B: It was a job for him. Somewhat conflating much. Even Holmes and this character, even for Holmes, it was kind of a grisly job for him. And then there's the aspect Of I'm so fascinated by the actual Holmes as a person. That is. I don't like being fascinated by him, but he is fascinating. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Tell us more about your fascination with Holmes. Because I'll be honest with you, when I heard this episode, it was the first time I'd ever heard it. I kind of picked it out of the. The air. I said, murder Castle. What a fun name. I like. Maybe this one will work. And I listen and said, wow. Okay. So. And then I researched it. And then I also learned about Holmes. I didn't know anything about this cat either. So. You seem to know a lot about him. But this is right up here. Yeah. [00:32:08] Speaker C: What's wrong with you, Tim? [00:32:10] Speaker B: Not to get on a high horse here, because I think the first I heard of Holmes was on Supernatural, the TV series. So nice. But I think he's sometimes referred to as, like, the first American serial killer. And he's less than maybe about 10 years after Jack the Ripper. So it's still very much in the early days of what a serial killer was as far as a concept. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. He was the first one that they called a serial killer. Isn't that right? [00:32:40] Speaker B: That sounds right. [00:32:41] Speaker A: I mean, that had to have existed before then, that there. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Just no one. I don't know if it was the media that didn't exist enough to keep track of these things. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:50] Speaker C: Just so many people died back then. It was hard to keep track. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:54] Speaker C: Just got lost in the rest of the murders. [00:32:57] Speaker A: Well, yeah. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah. It's fascinating. That whole concept of he built this hotel with the express purpose of this will help me kill better. Right. [00:33:07] Speaker A: It would make him more efficient. [00:33:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker C: Too. But he didn't call it hotel kill better. Maybe steered some victims away. [00:33:16] Speaker A: So let's talk about the episode itself. And it's interesting to know that you've heard it before and you are scarred by it. And so I was listening to this, and I'll be honest. You know, when we're doing these, getting ready to record these podcasts and we're listening to these, there are three or four I'll listen to. And I'll go, nope. You know, I'm not. I don't want that in the podcast. Like, I. I will listen until I find. Oh, that's one. And I listen to this one, who said, yes, this one for a lot of reasons. And so I'm really excited. That was something that you guys are familiar with for me to start with, how it's built, how the structure is of how it's written and how it Plays out acting wise and directorial wise and all of those nerdy actor type things. But I love how it. It flows. And I starts with her freaking out, and then we have to come back and find out why. Also, I like the idea. I. I struggled with telling everybody at the beginning that this. This episode starred Joseph Kearns, Mr. Wilson from Dennis. Because as we know, this is an art form that we all get to participate in. And so if whatever's in our head is what it is for us. Right. So if you tell someone something, then that's what it is, and no longer can you create what you think it is. So I was like, oh, I don't want to tell them that. And then I realized, no, I do want to tell them that, because it actually made it better for me because when I pictured Mr. Wilson, I went, yeah, that's exactly how I picture this guy to look and how he talks. And so it was actually great. [00:35:04] Speaker B: I want to give credit, too, for the technical aspects of the writing, for creating this landscape, this interior of this hotel, of the Murder Castle that is Murder Castle. [00:35:18] Speaker A: That's what it was called. [00:35:21] Speaker B: I just want to reinforce the name, that it's very clear where you are, what's happening. But it also creates that sense of, I don't know where I am. I don't know what's happening. That's a really useless comment now that I've said it out loud. [00:35:33] Speaker C: But it's so. [00:35:36] Speaker B: So environmentally specific and yet confusing. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Right, right. Doesn't it seem like after about halfway through it, that this castle house is gigantic, endless maze of hallways and, well, he's building a new room for each one. Right. Isn't that the premise? [00:35:56] Speaker C: It seems to be the implication, yeah. And he's got different things going on. He's got trap doors leading to lime pits and the cement. The fresh cement scene is a killer one because even sound effects for when she's sinking into the cement and it's just over the top enough, it has to make more sound than it really would in real life to be audible on a radio horror show. But it's still understated somehow, even though it's this grotesque sound effect of someone slipping into cement. [00:36:27] Speaker A: But he's so vivid in your head. It's described so well that I see her going, you know, into the cement and sinking. And yeah, I have that note. You're like, oh, man, that cement scene is tough. I love the line he speaks where he says every inch of it of my own design. When he's describing his house, the pride yeah. In his house. But if he wasn't a serial killer, it would just be a guy going, yeah, you know, and he built this all myself. But you realize later that very specific design, so just a very simple line that had a lot, a huge implication as far as plot structure. [00:37:08] Speaker B: And then another scene, his death, so grizzly. [00:37:14] Speaker C: And they take a long time on it. They really wallow in it. [00:37:18] Speaker A: Death is the best radio drama. Death. It's in losing that air in that room so slowly. [00:37:28] Speaker C: And that pump, again, a great sound effect because it's a neutral sound. It's not a scary sound. But in the context of the story, when you hear that, the air pump. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Very subtle. [00:37:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:39] Speaker A: And then, you know, and then there's, you know. [00:37:40] Speaker B: And Dennis, like the blood in his mouth or what? [00:37:43] Speaker C: Yeah, he's talking about. [00:37:44] Speaker A: And Dennis is outside the room taunting him. Geez, Mr. Wilson, here is another great line in this. This episode. Probably my favorite written line, when he says, well, we all can't be virtuous, can we? Do I believe the second lady that comes? [00:38:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:08] Speaker A: He's such a kindly old man. [00:38:11] Speaker B: The spirit of that pump sound effect is the. The businesslike meticulousness of handling the bank accounts and the checks. And it's so chilling and neutral, like you said. [00:38:23] Speaker C: And then there's this. The revenge. Revenge. Revenge is this great opening that we talked about. And then it closes again. But there is sor of a repetition theme going throughout it because there are other spots where words are repeated. There's a moment where he is saying, change, change, change, change, in a kind of creepy way where he's talking about he's always changing. And he also describes the pump too. He goes pumping, pumping, pumping. And so we get that all throughout the entire episode. And then at the very end, when the cop is sort of mirroring her chant of revenge and he's sort of saying it along. He's just been hearing it over and over again. [00:38:58] Speaker A: And I wrote down the. That line in my notes because I loved it. It's so chilling. Building something down here. Yes. Changing. Constantly changing. Building, change, change, change. Concrete mixer over here. Constantly building the rooms. I like concrete, don't you? Covers everything. Okay, man. It's at that point, though, really, that you should think, maybe I'm not going to be a maid here. Right. [00:39:27] Speaker C: But that's something we haven't talked about. This. That is really great. Is that the sister comes back for revenge. Yes, because someone figures it out. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Although she blows her cover too early. [00:39:38] Speaker C: Yeah, but that's what I like. She's emotional. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:41] Speaker C: She's coming out of a. In a state of emotion. She wants revenge. And what's great is that that makes you feel like she's a regular person. She's not an undercover cop. She's not ready for action. She's just upset, and she gets cornered and she just. Just tells him. [00:39:56] Speaker A: Or like Margot in the shadow, where, you know, infallible hero. She's very, very real. Like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And then she gets a dick. Where is she? [00:40:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:04] Speaker A: Like, okay. [00:40:06] Speaker B: And it really heightens, like, because you like her, because she's coming to do the right thing. She is the. The person who steps in the situation, who knows what's going on, and then you put her in peril. And, like, I don't want her to die. Oh, please, not her. [00:40:21] Speaker A: Yep. The growing panic in the first girl. The first scene is also much like we were talking about his death and how long and painful and real and terrifying that is. The growing panic in that first girl when she realized she's locked in the room. Hey, the door is locked. As it escalates to open the door, you know, and the screaming and how quickly it escalates, I found very real and hard to listen to. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Yes. I really wanted to listen to the worm thing on cassette. [00:40:52] Speaker C: Flip this tape over right now. [00:40:57] Speaker A: Another moment when he says to the woman that comes to confront him, he says, oh, you know what? Yes, of course your sister's here. I found a really odd moment where he says, yeah, she's here. I was just having a little joke I wrote down in my notes. Yeah, good joke, bad cover. No, of course she's here. [00:41:21] Speaker B: You get the sense. I'm sorry. As soon as you step into this murder castle. That's the title of this, probably. The door is locked secretly behind you. As soon as you're in the building, you're trapped. [00:41:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. You get the sense that he has no distress at this. You know, you're already in my web. You can accuse me of anything, and I can just play this game about how it's a joke, and I can still show you around the hotel. And he takes his time. It's not like. Cause he could just grab her right there and kill it. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:50] Speaker C: He has this sense of confidence. [00:41:52] Speaker A: You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. [00:41:56] Speaker C: It's also interesting to me that Obloer. [00:41:58] Speaker B: Has made him move right past that. [00:42:00] Speaker C: We're gonna go right past that dated commercial joke. I'm really concerned about. Dated References here. All Time Radio podcast. No, but Arch Oblor plays women for the traditional role this time as victims. Right. But he also has a lot of these where there is also a leading female character and is both victim, but kind of plays the hero role. [00:42:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:28] Speaker C: And it's really odd for this time. Like the poltergeist, which we listen to, there are a couple others that are completely cast as all female characters. They're often the victims too, but there's often like a stronger one and it really stands out. And I'm not sure if that was something intentional on his part or if it was wartime and didn't have any man actors. I don't know. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Well, I think there's something to do with it. [00:42:51] Speaker B: It's got roots, deep roots in the genre of old fairy tales. Times of like the innocent female put in peril, who was either going to fall victim to it or overcome it. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Also, I think the time has something. Yes, not a lot of men in the 40s, less men. But also the fact that we were on the beginning of understanding that women could do more because they had to a lot in old time radio and in movies and everything. That was the beginning of stronger and stronger female roles in all sorts of art. And they're not being damsels in distress only. So a couple more notes here that I just wanted to go through. First of all, made me laugh. Forgot to check for a gun. Damn it. You would think that doing that for a living, what he was doing, that you'd be a little more. [00:43:49] Speaker B: I actually bought it in the story. I've had 30. I can't remember if they even gave a number of how many people come in here and fall victim to this? I've never had a gun show up. [00:43:58] Speaker C: Yeah. And I mean, you can always go, oh, you. You brought a gun. I brought a murder castle. I mean. [00:44:07] Speaker A: And then this note. I. I don't know if you guys were listening enough. I just gotta ask, because I was very confused in the ionized yeast tablet commercial. Why did the woman storm out of the house at the beginning? Do you listen? And all of a sudden she just. It starts with that woman storming out of the house. And then was there not enough yeast in her diet? You guys didn't listen to that? [00:44:32] Speaker C: I didn't follow it. [00:44:34] Speaker A: I was listening. I said, wait, why is that woman angry? And what does that have to do with yeast? Okay, so we don't know. [00:44:39] Speaker C: She just needed to regain her glorious pep. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Any other thoughts on this? [00:44:47] Speaker B: If I start talking about HH Holmes in General, I'll just be going on forever and sound, I'll be put on an FBI list. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Just don't do the HHS Holmes podcast. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Yes. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Weekly. [00:45:01] Speaker C: Because the FBI are pouring through these old time radio podcasts for suspects. [00:45:08] Speaker A: What if. All right, let's start with Tim. What do you think? Does it stand the test of time? Where does this rank? [00:45:15] Speaker B: I think this is a timeless classic. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Unqualified. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Yep. [00:45:19] Speaker C: I'm gonna agree. I think this really stands the test. Time. It's. It's like you mentioned at the top, Tim, it's actually feels modern. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Right. It's very. Like I made this reference before, but it's like watching Criminal Minds, you know, it's just so vivid and so terrifying and again, it's real. And I think that's a little more terrifying sometimes. Like, oh man, that's. That's not ghosts or supernatural or things that we can go thank. Gosh, that doesn't exist in real life. [00:45:50] Speaker C: Like, not that there's a murder castle in every corner either. Those. [00:45:54] Speaker A: It's not what I tell my daughter. Don't leave. Okay, so we all are in agreement that this is stands the test of time. And in fact, it's one of the better ones. And I'm so glad that I accidentally came across this and am now exposed. [00:46:10] Speaker C: To this timeless classic and I finally got to finish it. Fears. [00:46:17] Speaker A: All right, well, that's gonna wrap it up. Some information for you. First of all, if you want to know more about us or information on these shows or anything, please go to the website, which is ghoulishdelights.com that's ghoulish delights.com also. There you will find information on some very exciting news. We did a live performance of a couple of old time radio dramas a few months ago and it went very well to the point where someone said, we'd like you to do these on a regular basis. So if you're in the Minneapolis St. Paul area coming up in January, you can find all the information on the website. But we're going to be doing recreations of old time radio. Me, Tim Joshua and Shannon Custer of these all time radio shows. Oh, and Joe Wiseman. I forgot Joe. At the James hill Library in St. Paul. It's beautiful and it's going to be a lot of fun. So we get to do the podcast and do them ourselves. So come out and judge us how. On how good we did them. [00:47:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Please go on to itunes and write a review if you enjoy the podcast, even if you don't. I mean, what does it hurt, really? Write a good review. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Just go, yeah, lie. You know what? Go down, find a good review, copy and paste it like I do with all my ebay feedback. [00:47:37] Speaker C: And save your judgment for going to ghoulishdelights.com and voting in our poll. You can decide what you thought of this episode, whether it was a timeless classic or not worth ever listening to again. So please go on and give us your thoughts as well. [00:47:53] Speaker A: So coming up, our next show is going to be Joshua's Pick. Joshua, what are we going to be listening to? [00:47:59] Speaker C: Well, we are kicking off a series of Christmas related episodes for early part of December and I am starting with a quiet please episode called Northern Lights. And I should warn you, it's not very Christmassy. It's more of a wintry episode to get us, get us in the mood. And that is by Willis Cooper who as we mentioned and this episode originated Lights out. So you'll want to tune in for that. But until next time.